"Star ratings" Whats the big deal?

[Freak]

How many Nebraska linemen, running backs and defensive players made it into the NFL? Quarterback is one position.

how many?

 

[Lexvol]

The star ratings are still worthless. I was reading how a group of UT coaches was shown some tape of high schoolers after the '99 season and someone slipped in an old one from '95 and askedthe rest to focus on one specific player to see if he would be worthwhile as a Vol. Every man said no...the player was Billy Ratliff.

I know I mentioned this on another thread, but there seems to be confusion over whether the primary goal of the program is to turn out NFL players or to win college games. And how many people would be willing to forsake putting guys into the NFL with the tradeoff being tremendous success in the SEC and on the national level? After all, look how long Nebraska won and look what became of their quarterbacks at the next level...every one either switched positions or flopped (if they even made it that far).

While I agree that the star ratings can be a distraction in recruiting, it is my perception that colleges that turn out a large number of NFL athletes also generally win conference and national championships.

If we were dicussing basketball the "team concept" would make more sense.

 

[Ohio Vol]

hatvol,

You're talking to a huge proponent of the option game, so the number of linemen, running backs, and defensive players making it to the NFL from Nebraska is sizable and also hardly something I'm going to attempt to refute.

I believe that Tennessee would be able to make a complete offensive switch to an option game and go unbeaten within a year. The question is how many people would want to go into the offseason with that offense knowing that every quarterback (let's not forget how hung up the guy on the radio and the guy at the end of every bar is about a QB) with pro aspirations (basically, every last one of them) is going to spurn UT. I'd rather see the marquee recruits have positional designations like OT, OG, and C and leave the other positions to pick up the rest, but that's just me.

The fact is that there are systems out there that can produce great success at the expense of national notoriety, and there are times when I wonder how many people would be willing or accepting of that sacrifice. The idea of Ainge/Hardegree/Crompton being the top dog at QB, as far as I'm concerned, is a debate that falls far below the OL position battles. As General Neyland said, "One good blocker equals three good ballcarriers".

 

[rockytopinalabam]

The dirty little secret is that quite a few of these recruiting "experts" have ulterior motives. The most obvious is Tom Lemming, who is nothing more than a Notre Dame hack. Guys who are considering ND gets their overall ratings boosted substantially, and those who rule out ND get knocked down a decent amount.

But don't forget who the top two QBs were back in 1994....Peyton Manning and Branndon Stewart. Which one became a college legend and a probable NFL Hall of Famer, and which one currently has "whereabouts unknown"?

Some people had Josh Booty rated No. 1

 

[Lexvol]

hatvol,

You're talking to a huge proponent of the option game, so the number of linemen, running backs, and defensive players making it to the NFL from Nebraska is sizable and also hardly something I'm going to attempt to refute.

I believe that Tennessee would be able to make a complete offensive switch to an option game and go unbeaten within a year. The question is how many people would want to go into the offseason with that offense knowing that every quarterback (let's not forget how hung up the guy on the radio and the guy at the end of every bar is about a QB) with pro aspirations (basically, every last one of them) is going to spurn UT. I'd rather see the marquee recruits have positional designations like OT, OG, and C and leave the other positions to pick up the rest, but that's just me.

The fact is that there are systems out there that can produce great success at the expense of national notoriety, and there are times when I wonder how many people would be willing or accepting of that sacrifice. The idea of Ainge/Hardegree/Crompton being the top dog at QB, as far as I'm concerned, is a debate that falls far below the OL position battles. As General Neyland said, "One good blocker equals three good ballcarriers".

Ohio,

What would the sucessful option offense look like? How will you account for the talented and fast defensive ends and linebackers in the SEC? I consider you knowlegable, and am sincerely curious.

 

[Vol423]

Well, obviously if these are players that cant cut it then we dont want them on the team just because they are from Tennessee. BUT, the point most people are missing is that these kids are better than you guys think. Fulmer has said that this crop of high school seniors in the state are the best group since he has been at UTK. That is saying something. So the situtation is that the UTK staff has seen the players in their own state A LOT more than the recruiting service gurus and therefore know that some of these kids that are not "ranked by rivals" are better than the service think because they havent had enough exposure. Ok, you want to take stabs at Fulmer's coaching abilities. Sure, go ahead. But, do you really want to say he doesn't have an eye to recognize talent? Do you know how many top recruiting classes we have had (dont mention development, we are just talking talent)? So, lets give the staff a little credit for being able to recognize that these players in the state have more talent than they are being given credit for right now.

...or could it be that Fulmer realizes that with our poor showing last season, UT is getting largely shut out on the recruiting of the top players nationwide, and he is therefore talking up the in-state talent since he realizes that is where a large portion of his signings will come from this year.

 

[Vol423]

Ohio,

What would the sucessful option offense look like? How will you account for the talented and fast defensive ends and linebackers in the SEC? I consider you knowlegable, and am sincerely curious.

While I'm definitely NOT a proponent of UT going to the option offense, I imagine that the option offense that Ohio Vol is proposing would look something like the option attack that Nebraska ran RIGHT OVER Tennessee in their two meetings in the 90's.

 

[WA_Vol]

I know I mentioned this on another thread, but there seems to be confusion over whether the primary goal of the program is to turn out NFL players or to win college games.

I don't feel UT is doing either of those well right now. Its been mentioned here before, but UT has not had many offensive players get drafted on the first day of the draft for several years now.

Its always going to be true that certain coaches are going to be able to take 2 and 3 star players and make NFL prospects out of them. In the past, UT has not had those kind of coaches. If a player comes into UT as a highly recruited player, then the UT coaching staff gives them every opportunity to demonstrate that talent. I have no problem with that. I just don't feel UT has the kind of coaching staff that will be able take a large group of 2 and 3 star players and win a NC with them. I'm not sure there are any coaches in the SEC who can do that.

The big unknown here, is how hard a player is going to work after he gets on campus. I think Billy Ratliffe had the work ethic to make himself a star player. Offensive and defensive lineman have opportunities to work in the weight room and greatly improve their lot.

Positions like QB and WR your not going to improve your 40 time or the velocity you can throw a football a lot in the weight room. Your not going to see a lot players come in running a 4.6, running a 4.2 when they graduate, or a weak-armed QB graduate as a strong-armed NFL prospect.

 

[WA_Vol]

The vast majority of true impact players were highly touted coming out of high school.

Bingo.

I think sometimes the difference between the #1 prospect and the #4 prospect at a position is greater then the difference between the #4 prospect and the #15 prospect at the postion. There have been very few #1 prospects in high school turn out to be busts.

I think a lot of Fulmer's problems recruiting have been, he hasnt really recruited the impact player out of high school although he was able to recruit lots of 4 star players.

Over the last 4 years the two teams who had done the best job recruiting both ended up playing each other for the NC, Texas and USC.

 

[VolinArizona]

Bingo.

Double bingo.

 

[milohimself]

Yahtzee

 

[therickbol]

Should someone also point out that many of you fans would have been disgusted about UTK accepting a commitment from measly 3-star LB Patrick Willis a couple of years ago? Yeah, glad we didnt get a commitment from him...lol.

We arent a player for big time prospects VOL423? Yeah Marvin Austin, Eric Berry, Joseph Barksdale, Lennon Creer, etc, etc are not big time prospects that we in on...

 

[milohimself]

Should someone also point out that many of you fans would have been disgusted about UTK accepting a commitment from measly 3-star LB Patrick Willis a couple of years ago? Yeah, glad we didnt get a commitment from him...lol.

We arent a player for big time prospects VOL423? Yeah Marvin Austin, Eric Berry, Joseph Barksdale, Lennon Creer, etc, etc are not big time prospects that we in on...

I don't think you could deny Tennessee needs to keep up the performance to keep getting big recruits. I don't know why Tennessee doesn't have much in-state talent, but it definitley works to the program's disadvantage.

 

[Vol423]

We arent a player for big time prospects VOL423? Yeah Marvin Austin, Eric Berry, Joseph Barksdale, Lennon Creer, etc, etc are not big time prospects that we in on...

Being in a player's top 5 list of schools means nothing. Let's see how many top players we actually end up signing.

 

[therickbol]

Means nothing? Ummm, it means that out of the 100's of college programs in the country we beat out all but 4 to be in that list. Does that mean all of them, or even any of them, will sign with us? Nope. But, it does mean we are a 'player' on the national scene with top prospects. And, not only that but our outlook on guys like Eric Berry and Marvin Austin are actually quite good. Considering we havent player a single down after last year's collapse it is a very positive sign. If they turn things around on the field these big time recruits are going to grow in terms of interest in UTK. I think its ridiculous to say UTK is not a 'player' on the national scene in recruiting.

 

[Vol423]

Means nothing? Ummm, it means that out of the 100's of college programs in the country we beat out all but 4 to be in that list. Does that mean all of them, or even any of them, will sign with us? Nope. But, it does mean we are a 'player' on the national scene with top prospects. And, not only that but our outlook on guys like Eric Berry and Marvin Austin are actually quite good. Considering we havent player a single down after last year's collapse it is a very positive sign. If they turn things around on the field these big time recruits are going to grow in terms of interest in UTK. I think its ridiculous to say UTK is not a 'player' on the national scene in recruiting.

Perhaps that is because the statement that UT is not a "player" on the national scene in recruiting is YOUR STATEMENT, not mine. My statement was, "...or could it be that Fulmer realizes that with our poor showing last season, UT is getting largely shut out on the recruiting of the top players nationwide (This means that we're not going to SIGN many top players. Being close doesn't mean squat in recruiting, so being in a recruit's Top 5 doesn't mean anything.), and he is therefore talking up the in-state talent since he realizes that is where a large portion of his signings will come from this year."

 

[Vol423]

Means nothing? Ummm, it means that out of the 100's of college programs in the country we beat out all but 4 to be in that list. Does that mean all of them, or even any of them, will sign with us? Nope.

Does UT receive some type of prize for finishing in a recruit's Top 5? No. If you don't sign them then it's irrelevant if you finished 2nd or 110th in recruiting them. Finishing 2nd does absolutely nothing to help our team and Fulmer will end up signing in-state talent instead, which was the point of my original post in the first place.

 

[hatvol96]

Wade Houston finished in the top 5 for Glen Robinson, Alan Henderson, Corliss Wiliamson, and Lawrence Funderburke when he was the coach at UT. How much good did that do him?

 

[therickbol]

Ok, let me slow down and type more clearly since you seem to not understand. We finished 5-6 last season....5-6! We have not played one single down to show that our team has made any improvement over the horrible team we were last season. Yet, Top 100 players in the entire country are eliminating schools and naming a Top 5. And, UT is among that Top 5. Beating out schools that had a much better record than 5-6 and actually looked like more than a pop warner team dressed in UT uniforms. That is what means something. If we manage to show improvment and win games then the Top 100 players who have us in the Top 5 will sign with UT. Not to mention new Top 100 players who were apprehensive because of our record will emerge with interest. I want to know where in my post I said we got any award for finishing in the Top 5? I didn't. I did however point out the above scenario which apparently flew way over your heads.

 

[hatvol96]

Ok, let me slow down and type more clearly since you seem to not understand. We finished 5-6 last season....5-6! We have not played one single down to show that our team has made any improvement over the horrible team we were last season. Yet, Top 100 players in the entire country are eliminating schools and naming a Top 5. And, UT is among that Top 5. Beating out schools that had a much better record than 5-6 and actually looked like more than a pop warner team dressed in UT uniforms. That is what means something. If we manage to show improvment and win games then the Top 100 players who have us in the Top 5 will sign with UT. Not to mention new Top 100 players who were apprehensive because of our record will emerge with interest. I want to know where in my post I said we got any award for finishing in the Top 5? I didn't. I did however point out the above scenario which apparently flew way over your heads.

The point didn't go over our heads. We were too busy laughing at it to address it in our posts.

 

[therickbol]

You find humor in logical thought? That might be a bad sign.

 

[hatvol96]

You find humor in logical thought? That might be a bad sign.

How many of those top 100 players are committing? UT still has enough name cache that high schoolers put them on their list, it means absolutely nothing. If you aren't pulling them in, making some silly top 5 list is meaningless.

 

[patrick]

STARS..........STARS...........

WE DONT NEED NO STINKING STARS