State of our program: Expectations and Achivement

#26
#26
Every "great" program has its stretches of mediocrity. OU, Miami, Auburn, Texas, USC, you name it.

The teams in the SEC are much more even than ever before IMO. Georgia is now regularly a player in the SECE, as is So.Car. to some extent. SECW has 4 teams that can win it any year.

We've pulled out of the low point from last season, so only time will tell whether we're really "back" or not. 9-3 going into a bowl would be a good start. I'm not 100% happy about the season, but certainly don't deem it a failure.
 
#27
#27
SCSmokey said:
Every "great" program has its stretches of mediocrity. OU, Miami, Auburn, Texas, USC, you name it.

The teams in the SEC are much more even than ever before IMO. Georgia is now regularly a player in the SECE, as is So.Car. to some extent. SECW has 4 teams that can win it any year.

We've pulled out of the low point from last season, so only time will tell whether we're really "back" or not. 9-3 going into a bowl would be a good start. I'm not 100% happy about the season, but certainly don't deem it a failure.
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I agree with the general premise that it is impossible for 1 team to completely dominate cfb year-in and year-out for more than 2-3 seasons at a time. One of my issues is that UT was never a "great" program. The Vols were on the cusp of greatness at the end of '98 but in subsequent years the coaches got fat and lazy and pissed it all away. If UT had taken that next step in '99 or '01 and really put themselves in that elite category then a couple of mediocre seasons while rebuilding would be easier to swallow.

Assuming the rumous about Spurrier to Miami are true does anyone thing the Cocks come after Cut?
 
#28
#28
I agree with the general premise that it is impossible for 1 team to completely dominate cfb year-in and year-out for more than 2-3 seasons at a time. One of my issues is that UT was never a "great" program. The Vols were on the cusp of greatness at the end of '98 but in subsequent years the coaches got fat and lazy and pissed it all away. If UT had taken that next step in '99 or '01 and really put themselves in that elite category then a couple of mediocre seasons while rebuilding would be easier to swallow.
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I agree. The question is...how do you define a program as "great"? Winning a title more then once every 40-odd years would seem to be a criteria. And we definately had the teams in 99 and 01. But we obviously slipped since then. Now a 3-loss season is good, and we've gotten used to not winning the sec cg.
 
#29
#29
kptvol said:
I don't think that was the problem so much as horrific offensive play-calling. That season should have been a strong indicator that Randy Sanders was not what UT needed. We were more talented than every team we played that year.
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Nebraska manhandled Tennessee in the Fiesta Bowl that year (2000 Fiesta Bowl after the 99 season). We were most definitely NOT more talented than they were.
 
#30
#30
I agree a 3 loss season is not a good season, if that's what we are to expect year after year. The point I tried to make was that it's a good start to rebuilding after last year. Not an overnight task. If we can go from 9-3 this season and improve next year, surely that would be signs of pulling out of the nosedive we were in. I have no blind devotion to Fulmer. And if he doesn't continue to improve, then perhaps at some point it's time for a change. But he made some changes, and we've seen immediate improvement and when the D is back up and full strength next year, I expect good things.

Whether UT was ever a "great" program is a fair debate. I'm not saying they were. But whether you call them a "great" one or a "good" one is irrelevant. Point is that all good or great programs hit the hard times and we've had our share and I hope it's about to end.

Within last few weeks, we've seen a lot of talk on here about hiring this coach or that coach. Schiano has been a crowd favorite. His team lays an egg last night against Cincy. That shows that even good/great coaches don't get their guys up for every game, or that they can't get it done in every game. And if he came to UT, he's too would have some letdown games or seasons. This conference is simply too tough to have one team dominate every season.

I truly like being where we are now, rather than being like Bama -- looks like they are going to play musical coaches again before too long. Or LSU where I can tell you the fans aren't sold on Miles. He may have been crucified if they lost to Ole Miss last night.
 
#31
#31
It seems to me untill we can beat Florida on a consistent basis we will not be able to meet the goals orginally posted in this thread.
 
#32
#32
Big Orange fan said:
It seems to me untill we can beat Florida on a consistent basis we will not be able to meet the goals orginally posted in this thread.
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Agreed. The problem is that UF has 2 things we don't at UT. First, they are in a talent rich state. Next to KY, we are in the weakest state for homegrown talent. Second, they are a huge university with the resources that go along with that. They are more like a Big Ten school in terms of size and quality.

UF will have these natural advantages for some time to come. In large part, this is why they will continue (on average) to be the top team in the conference.
 
#33
#33
volinbham said:
Agreed. The problem is that UF has 2 things we don't at UT. First, they are in a talent rich state. Next to KY, we are in the weakest state for homegrown talent. Second, they are a huge university with the resources that go along with that. They are more like a Big Ten school in terms of size and quality.

UF will have these natural advantages for some time to come. In large part, this is why they will continue (on average) to be the top team in the conference.
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That's absolute garbage. The state of Florida had far superior high school talent all of those years that Spurrier coached there as well. Regardless, UT outrecruited Florida during Spurrier's reign at Florida. Spurrier badly outcoached Fulmer and company, but that's another subject.

Florida and Georgia have been the top teams in the SEC East for the last several years because both Meyer and Richt have outcoached Fulmer. As much as you guys like to criticize Meyer, he's undefeated against Phil.

One of the greatest recruiting blows that could possibly occur to the University of Florida would happen if the these rumors turn out to be true and Spurrier ends up at Miami.
 
#36
#36
Vol423 said:
That's absolute garbage. The state of Florida had far superior high school talent all of those years that Spurrier coached there as well. Regardless, UT outrecruited Florida during Spurrier's reign at Florida. Spurrier badly outcoached Fulmer and company, but that's another subject.

Florida and Georgia have been the top teams in the SEC East for the last several years because both Meyer and Richt have outcoached Fulmer. As much as you guys like to criticize Meyer, he's undefeated against Phil.

One of the greatest recruiting blows that could possibly occur to the University of Florida would happen if the these rumors turn out to be true and Spurrier ends up at Miami.
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Jeez, relax a little.

First of all, my comments weren't directed to or about Fulmer, Spurrier, Richt, Meyer or any other coach. And, I am suggesting that UF had these advantages during the Spurrier era but not that Fulmer is better than Spurrier. Track the demographic growth of the state and the growth of college football in that state goes right with it. It is not coincidence that each of the major schools in the state has had their best times since the mid-80's.

The fact that the state of Florida has better local talent simply means they have an easier recruiting job. It also means you have a better chance of getting players that grew up wanting to play for UF. That helps in the intangibles (see Alabama for example).

Further, my point implies that while we can change coaching -- we cannot change demographics nor school resources. Florida has an advantage there and will for the next decade at least. Can the advantage be overcome? Yes. But when you average it over the long-term, UF will be the strongest program in the SEC.
 
#37
#37
We don't have to beat Florida EVERY year to achieve those goals; we just need to be able to beat them about half the time. And we need to reassert ourselves over Georgia again and beat them most years. If we can get to that point, then we'll have a chance to play for a conference title every two or three years, as well as picking up some at-large BCS berths as a one-loss team in others.

We can achieve these goals as a equal or close second to Florida, as long as we get back to being a consistently better team than Georgia. We can't achieve them as the third-best team in that pecking order.
 
#38
#38
Vercingetorix said:
We don't have to beat Florida EVERY year to achieve those goals; we just need to be able to beat them about half the time. And we need to reassert ourselves over Georgia again and beat them most years. If we can get to that point, then we'll have a chance to play for a conference title every two or three years, as well as picking up some at-large BCS berths as a one-loss team in others.

We can achieve these goals as a equal or close second to Florida, as long as we get back to being a consistently better team than Georgia. We can't achieve them as the third-best team in that pecking order.
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Correct. The fact of the matter is that we were only the second best team in the SEC East in the 90's.
 
#39
#39
kidbourbon said:
how has usc been able to do it?
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where were they in the 80s & 90s?

but here is a perfect example on what a change in coaches can do....USC had lost much of their luster with poor coaching but had plenty of talent....Pete Carroll's 1st year (01) USC goes 6-6 then 11-2, 12-1, 13-0, 12-1 and is 9-1 now

Scout ranks his recruiting classes as

06- 1st
05- 6th
04- 1st
03- 1st
02 12th

33 five stars 48 four stars
 
#40
#40
WillisWG said:
where were they in the 80s & 90s?

but here is a perfect example on what a change in coaches can do....USC had lost much of their luster with poor coaching but had plenty of talent....Pete Carroll's 1st year (01) USC goes 6-6 then 11-2, 12-1, 13-0, 12-1 and is 9-1 now

Scout ranks his recruiting classes as

06- 1st
05- 6th
04- 1st
03- 1st
02 12th

33 five stars 48 four stars
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USC had very marginal talent prior to Carrol arriving on campus.
 
#41
#41
volinbham said:
Agreed. The problem is that UF has 2 things we don't at UT. First, they are in a talent rich state. Next to KY, we are in the weakest state for homegrown talent. Second, they are a huge university with the resources that go along with that. They are more like a Big Ten school in terms of size and quality.

UF will have these natural advantages for some time to come. In large part, this is why they will continue (on average) to be the top team in the conference.
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I agree that Florida does have natural advantages, primarily in recruiting. Fortunately, Florida has to share all that talent with Miami, Florida State, and many other premier programs that cherry pick the state (including the VOLS).

At the end of the day, scholarship limitations help even out the playing field - but given our relative lack of instate talent, having a great recruiter is an absolutely necessity at Tennessee in order to win. That's where Fulmer's biggest asset lies - and I hope he flexes that recruiting might this year. He's going to have to for us to sniff an SEC Championship any time soon.
 
#42
#42
General Jack said:
I agree that Florida does have natural advantages, primarily in recruiting. Fortunately, Florida has to share all that talent with Miami, Florida State, and many other premier programs that cherry pick the state (including the VOLS).
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Precisely.
 
#43
#43
Vol423 said:
USC had very marginal talent prior to Carrol arriving on campus.
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your standards are pretty high

in the 90s USC had 12 1st round NFL picks....tied for 3rd with UT. Start of 01 there were 26 Trojans on NFL roster and in 02 38....in 01 Carson Palmer was a JR and his starter..
 
#44
#44
The 90's are over and we're moving on. We are on the right track now and next year will be an even greater year than this year. I predict we'll be in the SECCG next year!
 
#45
#45
FlVols said:
I predict we'll be in the SECCG next year!
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We'll see. A lot will depend on whether Meachem returns or not, and I doubt that he will. In addition, we're not the only young team in the conference. There are a lot of teams that should be dramatically better next year.
 
#46
#46
Tebow will be hot in Florida, but Ainge is going to be awesome as a Sr. Georgia will be back again but I still believe we will be much better than both and be able to win next year against them all.
 
#47
#47
FlVols said:
Tebow will be hot in Florida, but Ainge is going to be awesome as a Sr. Georgia will be back again but I still believe we will be much better than both and be able to win next year against them all.
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Ainge will be great, but he'll have a bunch of wide receivers with little to no experience. Our offensive line will more than likely still suck, as I see no real reason to believe that our recent streak of atrocious offensive lines for the last 5 or so years will be broken. In addition, our defensive front seven is extremely soft this year. Who knows how they'll be next year. I think we're also going to lose a lot of experienced players in our secondary. Finally, our special teams will suck next year. That's a given. They suck every year.

As I stated before, we may be better next year or we may not. There are a lot of young teams in the conference, and I'm not so sure that we'll improve as much or more than they will, particularly given our coaching staff's track record of poor player development.
 
#48
#48
OrangeSquare said:
There is so much more parody in College Football these days.
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parody--any humorous, satirical, or burlesque imitation, as of a person, event, etc.

parity--equivalence; correspondence; similarity; analogy

I'm not usually the grammar police, but I found that particular error humorous.

EDIT: Just saw where kidbourbon beat me to it, but I said it better
 
#50
#50
Tennessee has improved from where they were last year however I do not call a 9 and 3 season a Good season. Now I would say that 10 and 2 is a good season as we would have beaten Fla, LSU or Ark.
Frankly, I think that Tennessee fans will have to endure 9 and 3 seasons and at the best 10 and 2 regular seasons until Fulmer retires. I do not see the Vols winning a Natl Ch for a while. I also do not see the Vols winning the SEC over the next 3-4 years..
 
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