stock market was up today...

#12,551
#12,551
Velo Vol said:
Yes, the stock market does stock market things, but a lot of "smart" money had to be in the mix for TSLA to hit $1 trillion.

I know you've not been pushing the stock, so I'm not directing the comment at you, but you have to make several assumptions in order for that company or its brethren to have a dominant market share ten years from now.
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Tesla is not a car company
 
#12,553
#12,553
VolStrom said:
Do they make and sell anything other than cars? Back in the day GM and Ford made everything including electronics and refrigerators, they were car companies.
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The battery wall for homes is a Tesla product. They also manufacture their own charging stations. Not sure how closely linked his other companies are, but TSLA being a tech company also, I would say there’s some overlap in product design across Musk’s other ventures.
 
#12,554
#12,554
Thunder Good-Oil said:
That makes sense. Apple gets much of their value from their customer base. Buyers of iPods and iPads became buyers of iPhones, iMacs, watches, iCloud services, and so on and vice versa. I would imagine that happy Tesla automobile customers will be buyers of home power units and related products. Tesla’s customer service is outstanding. A home generator is on my wish list. It is brutal when the power goes out and with all of the devices needed for working at home generators are becoming as necessary as HVAC, refrigeration, washers, dryers, stoves/ovens, and so on.
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I wasn’t speaking to a Tesla “ecosystem” but more to the information collected while driving their car itself. The travel routes, incoming and outgoing communications, interactions with the onboard apps. It’s a gold mine of personal info. The user generates a lot of valuable info that is sent back with every “update” performed regularly.
 
#12,556
#12,556
VolStrom said:
Do they make and sell anything other than cars? Back in the day GM and Ford made everything including electronics and refrigerators, they were car companies.
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They make solar panels and, as previously mentioned, energy storage devices that connect to the solar panels as well.
 
#12,557
#12,557
distrovol said:
I wasn’t speaking to a Tesla “ecosystem” but more to the information collected while driving their car itself. The travel routes, incoming and outgoing communications, interactions with the onboard apps. It’s a gold mine of personal info. The user generates a lot of valuable info that is sent back with every “update” performed regularly.
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I don’t know if that information is creating a significant part of Tesla’s valuation. It certainly does have value, but Tesla is worth a trillion. 2,000,000 cars at even 1,000 each is 2 billion. Plus there is a lot of potential goodwill to be lost if the info is gathered without their customer’s knowledge or permission.
 
#12,558
#12,558
distrovol said:
I wasn’t speaking to a Tesla “ecosystem” but more to the information collected while driving their car itself. The travel routes, incoming and outgoing communications, interactions with the onboard apps. It’s a gold mine of personal info. The user generates a lot of valuable info that is sent back with every “update” performed regularly.
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Stipulating that Telsa's big data operation gives it a considerable lead in the race to autonomous vehicles (this is what we're talking about, right?) , is it an advantage that holds up for the next decade?

Seems like once you figure out the engineering, it doesn't matter how many million miles you have in the system.
 
#12,559
#12,559
The same goes for batteries. Yes, TSLA has a production advantage with existing batteries, but does that hold if there's technological advancement? Is the plant infrastructure for a different battery essentially the same?
 
#12,560
#12,560
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I don’t know if that information is creating a significant part of Tesla’s valuation. It certainly does have value, but Tesla is worth a trillion. 2,000,000 cars at even 1,000 each is 2 billion. Plus there is a lot of potential goodwill to be lost if the info is gathered without their customer’s knowledge or permission.
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The information is certainly valuable as evidenced by Big Tech being as valuable and profitable as they are based entirely on user generated content. I agree that the relatively small market share Tesla has does not justify their valuation. Looking at their website they claim they do not sell the info they gather to third parties, but they still have said information and it adds to the value of the company.
 
#12,561
#12,561
Velo Vol said:
Stipulating that Telsa's big data operation gives it a considerable lead in the race to autonomous vehicles (this is what we're talking about, right?) , is it an advantage that holds up for the next decade?

Seems like once you figure out the engineering, it doesn't matter how many million miles you have in the system.
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I was not talking about autonomous vehicles, just their big data operations being part of the explanation for Tesla’s seeming overvaluation relative to what they actually produce. Since they have built their operations from the ground up to do this I think they enjoy advantages the traditional competition needs to catch up to. Rivian will likely be their next peer I think.
 
#12,563
#12,563
distrovol said:
I was not talking about autonomous vehicles, just their big data operations being part of the explanation for Tesla’s seeming overvaluation relative to what they actually produce. Since they have built their operations from the ground up to do this I think they enjoy advantages the traditional competition needs to catch up to. Rivian will likely be their next peer I think.
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Then what's the benefit of data in this industry?

For social media, healthcare, etc., the value of data is that you can target customers with particular goods. How does that work with autos?
 
#12,564
#12,564
VolStrom said:
Do they make and sell anything other than cars? Back in the day GM and Ford made everything including electronics and refrigerators, they were car companies.
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Something else I just remembered is that their battery packs and motors are being used on Starship.
 
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#12,565
#12,565
Velo Vol said:
Then what's the benefit of data in this industry?

For social media, healthcare, etc., the value of data is that you can target customers with particular goods. How does that work with autos?
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I would presume they use it to the benefit of Tesla how they see fit. Remember, my original comment was remembering reading a while back that their valuation was related to the info they gather while customers use Tesla products. I’m not trying to argue for that or put a percentage on that value.

Personally, I’m a gas guy and drive older, payed off vehicles. I think this ultra rapid push to EV is shortsighted virtue signaling and will not benefit the average person.
 
#12,566
#12,566
distrovol said:
I would presume they use it to the benefit of Tesla how they see fit. Remember, my original comment was remembering reading a while back that their valuation was related to the info they gather while customers use Tesla products. I’m not trying to argue for that or put a percentage on that value.

Personally, I’m a gas guy and drive older, payed off vehicles. I think this ultra rapid push to EV is shortsighted virtue signaling and will not benefit the average person.
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What did you read. There’s a difference between owning valuable data and the value of the data being a significant part of their valuation. They’ve built about 2 million cars. The market cap is about a trillion. That’s a half million per car.
 
#12,567
#12,567
Thunder Good-Oil said:
What did you read. There’s a difference between owning valuable data and the value of the data being a significant part of their valuation. They’ve built about 2 million cars. The market cap is about a trillion. That’s a half million per car.
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I made a cursory attempt to find the article last night. I’ll see if I can dig it up later. It was a year or two ago IIRC.
 
#12,572
#12,572
Thunder Good-Oil said:
What did you read. There’s a difference between owning valuable data and the value of the data being a significant part of their valuation. They’ve built about 2 million cars. The market cap is about a trillion. That’s a half million per car.
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I haven't been able to find it online still. Seems like I remember reading it in a print edition of The Economist a while back, although that might not be right. When I tried searching their content it is pay walled. I work with a guy who subscribes to it and he brings them to work regularly. I read them when he is done with it.
 
#12,574
#12,574
Velo Vol said:
Odd.

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Not all of them. Without digging I’ll bet that those companies have really good balance sheets and could benefit in the long run as their less favorably capitalized competitors struggle. BUT… Omicron seems like it’s brought a bit of over reaction from the COVID trades.
 
#12,575
#12,575
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Not all of them. Without digging I’ll bet that those companies have really good balance sheets and could benefit in the long run as their less favorably capitalized competitors struggle. BUT… Omicron seems like it’s brought a bit of over reaction from the COVID trades.
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I mean if someone a week ago gave you an over/under for Carnival at +10%, you would have said over because of its balance sheet?
 
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