stock market was up today...

#13,101
#13,101
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I’d be more concerned if there was an abundance of unemployed teenagers and other workers competing for $7.50/hour jobs.
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If there were a bunch of people competing for $7.50 jobs, it would probably mean employers weren't competing with government handouts, though. That would be a good thing. That's about the only thing that is going to make the US competitive in the world labor market and bring industry back home.
 
#13,102
#13,102
ND40....

All kidding aside...very happy for you . Enjoy every single day of retirement. I will never retire, and i am OK with that. My past decisions determined that in combination with the INEXCUSABLE acts of stealing from Soc Security by our shameless political class.

I just want to leave enough to my kids to hopefully give them some security i didnt have as a young adult....and thereby set them up to retire one day. All by Gods grace, as i deserve nothing good, as is sadly the case with many .
 
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#13,103
#13,103
marcusluvsvols said:
ND40....

All kidding aside...very happy for you . Enjoy every single day of retirement. I will never retire, and i am OK with that. My past decisions determined that in combination with the INEXCUSABLE acts of stealing from Soc Security by our shameless political class.

I just want to leave enough to my kids to hopefully give them some security i didnt have as a young adult....and thereby set them up to retire one day. All by Gods grace, as i deserve nothing good, as is sadly the case with many .
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SS isn’t going anywhere. Too many folks that are too old to work live on it and no political party can survive kicking our elderly to the streets.
 
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#13,104
#13,104
marcusluvsvols said:
ND40....

All kidding aside...very happy for you . Enjoy every single day of retirement. I will never retire, and i am OK with that. My past decisions determined that in combination with the INEXCUSABLE acts of stealing from Soc Security by our shameless political class.

I just want to leave enough to my kids to hopefully give them some security i didnt have as a young adult....and thereby set them up to retire one day. All by Gods grace, as i deserve nothing good, as is sadly the case with many .
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Thanks very much Marcus. I intend to try for sure.
 
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#13,105
#13,105
walkenvol said:
SS isn’t going anywhere. Too many folks that are too old to work live on it and no political party can survive kicking our elderly to the streets.
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But SS will be gone as we know it by 2035 at the latest according to the Feds...no more $ left in reserve. Zero....so all the $ that can be paid out every year thereafter is whatever amount of $ comes in from workers paychecks each year. That total that you sometimes get from the Feds showing what your estimated benefits per month would be based on your past/current contributions???

Last i read from the gov a couple years ago said to expect to ACTUALLY get about 70% of that each month. So....a third of our money already gone each month. This was before covid and Biden etc..

I am thinking we will probably get about half of what we have been promised...which is based on your 10 highest earning and contributing years .

Oh...and they keep pushing the age towards 70years when you can actually start drawing YOUR OWN money. Life expectancy in my dad's entire family is early 60s due to insane cancer incidence. I will likely never draw a dime. At least my mom can though praise God
 
#13,107
#13,107
marcusluvsvols said:
But SS will be gone as we know it by 2035 at the latest according to the Feds...no more $ left in reserve. Zero....so all the $ that can be paid out every year thereafter is whatever amount of $ comes in from workers paychecks each year. That total that you sometimes get from the Feds showing what your estimated benefits per month would be based on your past/current contributions???

Last i read from the gov a couple years ago said to expect to ACTUALLY get about 70% of that each month. So....a third of our money already gone each month. This was before covid and Biden etc..

I am thinking we will probably get about half of what we have been promised...which is based on your 10 highest earning and contributing years .

Oh...and they keep pushing the age towards 70years when you can actually start drawing YOUR OWN money. Life expectancy in my dad's entire family is early 60s due to insane cancer incidence. I will likely never draw a dime. At least my mom can though praise God
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The supposed money in the “fund” has been gone for years as the the government included it in the overall budget and spent those dollars. As I posted earlier, what political party is going to champion throwing our elders out into the streets by eliminating SS? Won’t happen and shouldn’t happen. SS is fixable
 
#13,108
#13,108
walkenvol said:
The supposed money in the “fund” has been gone for years as the the government included it in the overall budget and spent those dollars. As I posted earlier, what political party is going to champion throwing our elders out into the streets by eliminating SS? Won’t happen and shouldn’t happen. SS is fixable
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SS is a Ponzi scheme. The only way to fix it is to let in more illegals and/or have more babies.
 
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#13,109
#13,109
Rasputin_Vol said:
SS is a Ponzi scheme. The only way to fix it is to let in more illegals and/or have more babies.
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I’d call it an inefficient, poorly managed government agency. With 6.2% x 2 being taken out of almost every dollar of earned wages, there should have been plenty of money to make it work.
 
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#13,116
#13,116
Rasputin_Vol said:
SS is a Ponzi scheme. The only way to fix it is to let in more illegals and/or have more babies.
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SS as originally designed was not a Ponzi scheme. $Billions we’re collected for a government backed retirement plan. Instead of the monies growing from being invested, they spent the money and expanded the retirement plan to become a semi welfare program. Run the program as designed and pay benefits to folks only what they’ve earned by their contributions then it would be fine.
 
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#13,117
#13,117
walkenvol said:
SS as originally designed was not a Ponzi scheme.
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So convince me that this wasn't originally designed as a Ponzi when a woman that likely didn't contribute anymore than 3 years into SS can still get a check 35 years later?

How Much Did the First-Ever Social Security Check Pay Out? - HISTORY

Little did Ida May Fuller know she would find a piece of history inside her mailbox when she opened it on a February day in 1940. When the 65-year-old retiree and lifelong Republican lifted the lid of the mailbox outside the front door of her Ludlow, Vermont, house, she found a check for $22.54 from the U.S. government.
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When Social Security was enacted in 1935, the average life expectancy of an American woman was 64, and 60 for an American man. Fuller, who never married or had children, defied all the actuarial tables. She collected more than 400 monthly checks before her death in 1975 at the age of 100.
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Fuller received quite a healthy return on her contributions to the Social Security system. For three years prior to her retirement, she paid $24.75 of payroll taxes into the federal safety net. In the 35 years after her retirement, she received $22,888.92 in benefits, 924 times what she contributed to the program.
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#13,118
#13,118
That’s still not a Ponzi scheme. When the program was enacted all of the data was factored in to determine how much the payroll taxes needed to be to cover EVERY beneficiary. Obviously there were going to be many in the initial groups of beneficiaries that were going to collect far more than they contributed. And there would be outliers in that group that would live for several decades.

The program will have had a positive fund balance for nearly a century. It’s a horrible take to compare that to a Ponzi scheme.

It has become a tax on workers and employers to provide welfare type benefits to many. It has been poorly managed. It isn’t a retirement savings plan. Everything that isn’t a defined benefits plan for workers should have been coming out of the general fund from the inception. I guess payrolls are the easiest place for Feds to find taxable wealth.

Also, it will only require a modest increase in the tax rate, modest decreases in the benefits, and/or additional increases to the initial age of eligibility to keep the fund balance out of the red.
 
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#13,119
#13,119
Rasputin_Vol said:
SS will be here forever. They will just print as much money as they need to make it happen. You will get every penny that is owed to you (in nominal terms).

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Disagree to an extent. I got a feeling a formula change (born on or after = X %) and some sort of means testing is forthcoming.
 
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#13,124
#13,124
Rasputin_Vol said:
So?

3 years turns into 35 years of payments. How does that happen without it having Ponzi elements?
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That is how taxes and benefits work. No different than teenage baby mommas collecting a lifetime of welfare assistance and living in section 8 housing.

Social Security is a program that not only supplements the income of retirees, it supports those at the bottom of the economic spectrum. A Ponzi scheme that victimizes investors is something completely different.
 
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