Success in Afghanistan?

What is the single most important factor in what you would consider OEF a success?

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#3
#3
Are you trying to make a point about the lack of a clearly defined goal in this conflict?
 
#6
#6
nickknx865 said:
Kill the one with the long beard and funny voice.
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2/3rds of the population of Afghanistan fit that description.

btw, I chose the last option since it's something of a combination of killing/capturing OBL and reducing the Taliban's effectiveness by 100%.

OBL is more valuable to the US captured, detained in Gitmo or some secret CIA prison, with daily waterboarding sessions. OBL as a martyr wouldn't be a good thing, at least not short term.

The Taliban are already pretty ineffective, but are aided by the fact that the Afghan government has little or no influence in the countryside. It is a worthwhile goal to see them reduced to a few barking dogs that children throw rocks and sticks at without fear of reprisal.
 
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#8
#8
Well, this floundered out quickly. (In case anyone is wondering, this is a shameless bump.)
 
#11
#11
Killing Osama at this point would be worse than letting him rot into obscurity. (he is not in Afghanistan anyway)

Rendering the Taliban partially ineffective (even 90%) would be a waste of time and money. AQ is the bigger problem.

The ability to independently and effectively provide security to all Afghan citizens is a pipe dream we cannot even provide ourselves.

So I would choose none of the above. (I did choose one to see what the score was :whistling: )
 
#12
#12
Next Tuesday we will have more men under arms in Washington DC than if Afghanistan.

I don't see that Afghanistan could ever be that much of a success, they have adopted Islamic Sharia law as their official law code. How is that different than the Taliban.

The U.S. Secret Service is overseeing a security force of more than 40,000 people, including 7,500 active duty soldiers, 10,000 National Guard troops and 25,000 law-enforcement officers. That surpasses the 31,000 troops serving in Afghanistan.
 
#13
#13
I want Bin Laden captured alive and paraded down streets in NYC, then similar to the Braveheart torture to the pain of death.
 
#14
#14
Well Obama is sending 17,000 more of our men over there. I thought Mr. Obama said he was going to bring our men home? Also, where's the outcry from Code Pink like they did with Mr. Bush?
 
#15
#15
To be honest, I think capturing OBL might not be the best idea. It would probably only lead to him being made into an even greater martyr that would help the Taliban and Al-Qaeda continue to recruit for their cause. I think we should just let him rot away in whatever cave he's in and focus more on finding ways of cutting AQ and the TB's recruiting capabilities.
 
#16
#16
Voodoomonkey said:
To be honest, I think capturing OBL might not be the best idea. It would probably only lead to him being made into an even greater martyr that would help the Taliban and Al-Qaeda continue to recruit for their cause. I think we should just let him rot away in whatever cave he's in and focus more on finding ways of cutting AQ and the TB's recruiting capabilities.
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Those who would be recruited to the cause because OBL got the hammer are extremely likely to do so regardless of what we do.
 
#17
#17
Voodoomonkey said:
To be honest, I think capturing OBL might not be the best idea. It would probably only lead to him being made into an even greater martyr that would help the Taliban and Al-Qaeda continue to recruit for their cause. I think we should just let him rot away in whatever cave he's in and focus more on finding ways of cutting AQ and the TB's recruiting capabilities.
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Typical modern American dhimmi attitude, we should carpet bomb a couple of those countries, instead of bombing Christian countries on their behalf.

Your current POTUS seems intent on importing radical Hamas adherents from Palestine, while each week in America in hundreds of mosques, radical wahibism is preached to thousands of potential recruits.

I don't understand how the average American can be so ignorant and naive.
 
#18
#18
BigPapaVol said:
Those who would be recruited to the cause because OBL got the hammer are extremely likely to do so regardless of what we do.
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It's possible yes. But I look at it this way. My country and my fellow citizens are at war right now. If I'm already not enlisted in the military, and the enemy captures and kills someone who I know somewhat even if it's not personally and I deeply respect them, I'm probably more likely to go to war and fight because of that. Notice how in my original post I didn't say that capturing OBL would definitely be a bad thing. It's just not the main thing that would help us to win this war. The main thing to do would basically be to wipe out the enemies ability to continue what it is doing in furthering it's belief system that we are the enemy. To do that we need to find a way to cut out their ability to recruit younger people to their cause. That's all I'm saying.
 
#19
#19
gsvol said:
Your current POTUS seems intent on importing radical Hamas adherents from Palestine, while each week in America in hundreds of mosques, radical wahibism is preached to thousands of potential recruits.
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OK. Does that not fall into my comment that we should eliminate the abilities of our enemies to recruit for their cause? Not trying to be a smart ass, just asking. Because in my original post I didn't say we should only specifically focus on one area when trying to eliminate their ability to recruit for their cause.
 
#20
#20
IMO success in Afghanistan will be when we no longer have a presence there. The sooner the better. Whatever govt they decide to elect is their choice.

IMO Reagan had the best model. When terrorist camps, dictators, etc threaten the U.S. then you use air strikes to take out their leaders, camps, etc. It's short, quick and doesn't require a presence on the ground. If only Bush had been that wise.
 
#21
#21
oklavol said:
IMO success in Afghanistan will be when we no longer have a presence there. The sooner the better. Whatever govt they decide to elect is their choice.

IMO Reagan had the best model. When terrorist camps, dictators, etc threaten the U.S. then you use air strikes to take out their leaders, camps, etc. It's short, quick and doesn't require a presence on the ground. If only Bush had been that wise.
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Please tell me how air strikes would even put a dent in the Taliban, especially the higher ups?
 
#22
#22
KB5252 said:
Please tell me how air strikes would even put a dent in the Taliban, especially the higher ups?
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A nuclear bomb on Tora Bora about 60 days after 9/11 would have killed OBL and made his organization history.
 
#24
#24
oklavol said:
A nuclear bomb on Tora Bora about 60 days after 9/11 would have killed OBL and made his organization history.
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I can't imagine any other 20 word statement that would confuse and baffle my imagination so often.

1. Why just "a" nuclear bomb? If you are going to use an overkill method, then use an overkill method. Empty the damned arsenal on Afghanistan.

2. Why just the Tora Bora region? The Taliban maintained a firm grip on Kabul, Kandahar, Gardez, Jalalabad, etc. While OBL was believed to be hiding in the caves in that region, why are you so positive that our nuclear weapons would have worked? Those caves and tunnels were reinforced by Bin Laden Construction during the 1980s. If killing OBL was the objective, then we would have had to send in ground forces to ensure that the objective was met.

3. 60 days seems like an awfully arbitrary number for what would, fundamentally, be a routine set of airstrikes. Why even wait a week? More precise intel? Again, if you are going with overkill, go with it. Screw the intel and level the entire country...immediately!

4. Killing OBL would have crippled neither AQ nor the Taliban. While OBL certainly is a revered figurehead among the members of such camps, he is by no means the strategic and/or organizational mastermind he has been made out to be by the American populace.
 
#25
#25
oklavol said:
A nuclear bomb on Tora Bora about 60 days after 9/11 would have killed OBL and made his organization history.
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A nuclear bomb on Tora Bora would have created another set of problems, especially so close to Pakistan. The fallout(figuratively and literally) would have been worse than the status quo we see today.
 
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