Switzer/Fulmer Comparison

#1
hatvol96

hatvol96

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#1
Anyone who reads the board with regularity knows my feelings regarding both Barry Switzer and Phillip Fulmer. Those aside, there is an interesting parallel. Switzer began his career with unprecedented success. He won two National Championships and had easily the best winning percentage among D-I coaches. Then, he had three consecutive 4 loss seasons, as well as some very public personal and discipline problems. I would compare Fulmer's current situation to where Switzer stood going into the '84 season. How did Switzer respond to the heat? The next four seasons were: 9-2-1, 11-1(National Championsip), 11-1, 11-1. Those last three years they were 0-3 against Miami, 33-0 against the rest of the world. Does anyone on the board see Fulmer putting together a similar resurgence? I'll grant that the current SEC is far more difficult to navigate that the Big Eight of the mid-'80s. However, I would be interested to see how many of our posters think our current coach can string together a number of 11-2, SEC Championship caliber seasons.
 
#2
#2
I thought the Tom Osbourne Nebraska Cornhusker era vs Barry Switzer Oklahoma era was some of the best football ever as well as coaches.I support coach Fulmer but to replicate what Switzer did is possible but Osburne and Switzer are right there with the bear all alone I dare say.
 
#3
#3
CPF will have to squeeze every ounce of talent out of the 05 recruiting class, and pray that he finds a QB with the ability and charisma to lead in order to have one...ONE 11-2 season.

CPFs best shot at that kind of success may hinge the leadership of Crompton in his JR and Sr. seasons.
 
#4
#4
(utfantilidie @ May 13 said:
I thought the Tom Osbourne Nebraska Cornhusker era vs Barry Switzer Oklahoma era was some of the best football ever as well as coaches.I support coach Fulmer but to replicate what Switzer did is to much to expect of anyone these days.
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That's why I added the caveat about the strength of the SEC in comparison to the old Big Eight. In the mid-80s, OU was super, Nebraska was very good, Oklahoma State was decent, and the rest of the conference was disgraceful. Kansas and Kansas State were aguably the two worst teams in D-I, with Iowa State being almost as bad. That's what makes Bill Snyder's tenure at K-State all the more impressive.
 
#5
#5
(hatvol96 @ May 13 said:
Anyone who reads the board with regularity knows my feelings regarding both Barry Switzer and Phillip Fulmer. Those aside, there is an interesting parallel. Switzer began his career with unprecedented success. He won two National Championships and had easily the best winning percentage among D-I coaches. Then, he had three consecutive 4 loss seasons, as well as some very public personal and discipline problems. I would compare Fulmer's current situation to where Switzer stood going into the '84 season. How did Switzer respond to the heat? The next four seasons were: 9-2-1, 11-1(National Championsip), 11-1, 11-1. Those last three years they were 0-3 against Miami, 33-0 against the rest of the world. Does anyone on the board see Fulmer putting together a similar resurgence? I'll grant that the current SEC is far more difficult to navigate that the Big Eight of the mid-'80s. However, I would be interested to see how many of our posters think our current coach can string together a number of 11-2, SEC Championship caliber seasons.
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This is a terrific post for many reasons. I have read it several times, and have drawn one glaring similarity. Those losses to Miami came at a time when Schellenburger and Johnson were transforming the way that defense was played. They were recruiting speed turning safeties into linebackers, and linebackers into defensive ends, while the Big Eight was fast at skill positions, they were all about beef up front.

CPF is stuck in a similar transitional period particularly in the SEC. Now we will see if he is willing to make adjustments in offensive scheme in order to stay relevant.
 
#6
#6
(Lexvol @ May 13 said:
This is a terrific post for many reasons. I have read it several times, and have drawn one glaring similarity. Those losses to Miami came at a time when Schellenburger and Johnson were transforming the way that defense was played. They were recruiting speed turning safeties into linebackers, and linebackers into defensive ends, while the Big Eight was fast at skill positions, they were all about beef up front.

CPF is stuck in a similar transitional period particularly in the SEC. Now we will see if he is willing to make adjustments in offensive scheme in order to stay relevant.
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Exactly. Guys like Jerome Brown, Danny Stubbs, etc. just ate the 'Bone alive. It also hurt OU that Miami was the only team they played in that time frame that had a big time passing game. Nobody in the Big Eight, with the slight exception of OSU with Mike Gundy to Hart Lee Dykes, had a combination anything like Testaverde or Craig Erickson to Michael Irvin.
 
#7
#7
I'm more concerned about Fulmer's age, and the amount of energy and drive he still has to coach.

There was a decline for Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno. Paterno has had a resurgence of late, but he went through a long dry spell. FSU has not been nearly as dominant as they were back in 98 when UT played them.

Its hard to stay on top, younger coaches seem to have an advantage.
 
#8
#8
(Lexvol @ May 14 said:
This is a terrific post for many reasons. I have read it several times, and have drawn one glaring similarity. Those losses to Miami came at a time when Schellenburger and Johnson were transforming the way that defense was played. They were recruiting speed turning safeties into linebackers, and linebackers into defensive ends, while the Big Eight was fast at skill positions, they were all about beef up front.

CPF is stuck in a similar transitional period particularly in the SEC. Now we will see if he is willing to make adjustments in offensive scheme in order to stay relevant.
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Osbourne won an NC at Nebraska in 97, 95, and 94 with a wishbone style offense.
 
#9
#9
(oklavol @ May 14 said:
I'm more concerned about Fulmer's age, and the amount of energy and drive he still has to coach.

There was a decline for Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno. Paterno has had a resurgence of late, but he went through a long dry spell. FSU has not been nearly as dominant as they were back in 98 when UT played them.

Its hard to stay on top, younger coaches seem to have an advantage.
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The demands on a coach are much greater now than they once were. What worries me most is that Fulmer's strength, recruiting, is the most taxing part of the job. I think any objective observer would have to say that minus his recruiting success, Fulmer would be an average coach.
 
#10
#10
(oklavol @ May 14 said:
Osbourne won an NC at Nebraska in 97 and I think 95 with a wishbone style offense.
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I'm pretty sure they had gone to an Option I by that time. The Bone pretty much died in the 80s.
 
#11
#11
(oklavol @ May 14 said:
Osbourne won an NC at Nebraska in 97 and I think 95 with a wishbone style offense.
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1) Nebraska was an I formation offense.
2) They started winning National Championships after they did what Lexvol accurately described Miami as doing. The Huskers got smaller and faster on defense. Ask Florida about Nebraska's speed on defense.
3) Nebraska also won the National Championship in '94.
 
#12
#12
(hatvol96 @ May 14 said:
I think any objective observer would have to say that minus his recruiting success, Fulmer would be an average coach.
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I think you can say that about a whole lot of big time college coaches though. Are there really that many coaches out there winning consistently without top talent?
 
#13
#13
(GAVol @ May 14 said:
I'm pretty sure they had gone to an Option I by that time. The Bone pretty much died in the 80s.
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Thats true it was an option out of an I-formation instead of a wishbone formation.
 
#14
#14
(oklavol @ May 14 said:
Osbourne won an NC at Nebraska in 97, 95, and 94 with a wishbone style offense.
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He also had some speedy defensive players. Grant Winstrom is one that comes to mind off hand. I believe they called themselves the black shirts. Just about everyone had caught on in the nineties.
 
#15
#15
(GAVol @ May 14 said:
I think you can say that about a whole lot of big time college coaches though. Are there really that many coaches out there winning consistently without top talent?
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It depends on how we define "winning consistently." I don't think Kirk Ferentz has great talent at Iowa. Mike Belotti doesn't have a bunch of high school AAs at Oregon. Pat Hill doesn't get many name recruits. Bill Snyder didn't exactly bring in Top 10 classes to K-State. I think Mike Leach does a nice job with second tier recruits.
 
#16
#16
(Lexvol @ May 14 said:
He also had some speedy defensive players. Grant Winstrom is one that comes to mind off hand. I believe they called themselves the black shirts. Just about everyone had caught on in the nineties.
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Exactly. After they made the transition to speed on defense, Nebraska went from getting beaten to death by teams like FSU and Miami in bowl games to administering the beatings.
 
#17
#17
(hatvol96 @ May 14 said:
It depends on how we define "winning consistently." I don't think Kirk Ferentz has great talent at Iowa. Mike Belotti doesn't have a bunch of high school AAs at Oregon. Pat Hill doesn't get many name recruits. Bill Snyder didn't exactly bring in Top 10 classes to K-State. I think Mike Leach does a nice job with second tier recruits.
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Go ahead and add Spurrier to that list as well. Pat Hill can win anywhere because of his uncompromising willingess to make his program great. Mike Leach is an offensive genious. Hal Mumme is lost without him. Bill Snyder is an anomaly. Winning like that at KState would be the equivalent of Mississipi State rising to power in the SEC.
 
#18
#18
Whether or not we will return to mid - late 90's form next season is the million dollar question... and in my mind, the key to Fulmer's legacy at Tennessee.

Any more than 3 regular season losses and I believe its time to very seriously consider our options.
 
#20
#20
Hat.A guy that coached high school football in Texas for years, told me today that Barry Switzer was a non factor in the cowboys winning the two super bowls under him.Said the players didn't even need a coach.He gave all the credit to Jerry Jones.Plus he added that 7 Oklahoma players under Barry went to prison.Keep in mind, I'm only the liaison here, the messenger.Care to refute anything?
 
#21
#21
(utfantilidie @ May 14 said:
Hat.A guy that coached high school football in Texas for years, told me today that Barry Switzer was a non factor in the cowboys winning the two super bowls under him.Said the players didn't even need a coach.He gave all the credit to Jerry Jones.Plus he added that 7 Oklahoma players under Barry went to prison.Keep in mind, I'm only the liaison here, the messenger.Care to refute anything?
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I didn't know Texas high school football coaches were privy to so much insider information about the Dallas Cowboys. Interesting.
 
#23
#23
(IBleedOrange @ May 14 said:
somebody please correct me if i'm wrong but the way i understand that site, it sounds like any team that has a conference title game would obviously have to win that game and then win their BCS game and then win the championship game on the 8th??
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First off, any website that lists LSU and USC as co-national champions in 2003 loses credibility with me.

LSU won the BCS which is suppose to be the system that names the national champs it doesnt matter who the writers voted as no.1.

The BCS champ is the N.C. champ, no matter how flawed you think that system is, thats the system everyone agreed to.
 
#24
#24
(IBleedOrange @ May 14 said:
somebody please correct me if i'm wrong but the way i understand that site, it sounds like any team that has a conference title game would obviously have to win that game and then win their BCS game and then win the championship game on the 8th??
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The BCS Championship game is not a playoff game. It's just an additional BCS game. Instead of the Championship game rotating among the Sugar, Fiesta, Rose and Orange Bowls, they'll play those games as they regularly do, then a few days later #1 will play #2 in a Championship game.
 
#25
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(GAVol @ May 14 said:
The BCS Championship game is not a playoff game. It's just an additional BCS game. Instead of the Championship game rotating among the Sugar, Fiesta, Rose and Orange Bowls, they'll play those games as they regularly do, then a few days later #1 will play #2 in the Championship game.
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thanks for the clarification :eek:k:
 
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