Switzer/Fulmer Comparison

[volfan2024]

I didn't know Texas high school football coaches were privy to so much insider information about the Dallas Cowboys. Interesting.

He was also an All American (smaller division).I didn't say I agreed with him, but I respect a a high school coach's opinion especially one that coached football in that state.

 

[hatvol96]

Hat.A guy that coached high school football in Texas for years, told me today that Barry Switzer was a non factor in the cowboys winning the two super bowls under him.Said the players didn't even need a coach.He gave all the credit to Jerry Jones.Plus he added that 7 Oklahoma players under Barry went to prison.Keep in mind, I'm only the liaison here, the messenger.Care to refute anything?

1) The Cowboys only won one Super Bowl under Coach Switzer. It was an extremely talented team. There are a number of coaches who could have led them to a championship. That said, if your friend from Texas said Jimmy Johnson deserved all the credit, I wouldn't argue. If he says Jerry Jones deserves all the credit, he's an idiot.
2) Off the top of my head, I don't remember any players going to prison while at OU under coach Switzer. Jerry Parks, Nigel Clay, Bernard Hall, and Charles Thompson all committed acts that eventually led to their incarceration in early '89. Coach Switzer resigned shortly after Thompson was arrested. I'll be the first to admit that things were out of control at the end of Coach Switzer's reign in Norman. However, that's 4 guys committing acts in about a 2 month period. It's not as if OU had guys going to prison every year. Some of Switzer's players, the late David Overstreet comes to mind, ran afoul of the law after they left OU, but that happens at most programs. For example, Leonard Little and Dwayne Goodrich have run into serious legal troubles. I don't hold Fulmer responsible for them. Sounds like your friend was probably a Texas fan.

 

[hatvol96]

For those of you who like statistics, here's one: 20-5-1. That's Barry Switzer's combined career record against Darrell Royal, Tom Osborne, Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno, Woody Hayes, and Bo Schembechler.

 

[milohimself]

Anyone who reads the board with regularity knows my feelings regarding both Barry Switzer and Phillip Fulmer. Those aside, there is an interesting parallel. Switzer began his career with unprecedented success. He won two National Championships and had easily the best winning percentage among D-I coaches. Then, he had three consecutive 4 loss seasons, as well as some very public personal and discipline problems. I would compare Fulmer's current situation to where Switzer stood going into the '84 season. How did Switzer respond to the heat? The next four seasons were: 9-2-1, 11-1(National Championsip), 11-1, 11-1. Those last three years they were 0-3 against Miami, 33-0 against the rest of the world. Does anyone on the board see Fulmer putting together a similar resurgence? I'll grant that the current SEC is far more difficult to navigate that the Big Eight of the mid-'80s. However, I would be interested to see how many of our posters think our current coach can string together a number of 11-2, SEC Championship caliber seasons.

I think there is a difference you can see in the comparisons, while Switzer had a sustained mediocrity as you say, with consecutive four loss seasons, Fulmer's teams lately have been a little more all over the map. 8-5 in 2002, but then 10-3 in '03 and '04, then 5-6 in '05.

CPF will have to squeeze every ounce of talent out of the 05 recruiting class, and pray that he finds a QB with the ability and charisma to lead in order to have one...ONE 11-2 season.

CPFs best shot at that kind of success may hinge the leadership of Crompton in his JR and Sr. seasons.

He's also got to give him the tools to succeed... That's what we need to focus on now. A QB always needs guys around him to succeed.

This is a terrific post for many reasons. I have read it several times, and have drawn one glaring similarity. Those losses to Miami came at a time when Schellenburger and Johnson were transforming the way that defense was played. They were recruiting speed turning safeties into linebackers, and linebackers into defensive ends, while the Big Eight was fast at skill positions, they were all about beef up front.

CPF is stuck in a similar transitional period particularly in the SEC. Now we will see if he is willing to make adjustments in offensive scheme in order to stay relevant.

That's what I'd hope. Heck, he doesn't even necesarily have to change the playbook. Even changing the audible calls after 8 years would be nice. :crazy:

The demands on a coach are much greater now than they once were. What worries me most is that Fulmer's strength, recruiting, is the most taxing part of the job. I think any objective observer would have to say that minus his recruiting success, Fulmer would be an average coach.

As in not a good X's and O's coach? I'd agree with that.

I didn't know Texas high school football coaches were privy to so much insider information about the Dallas Cowboys. Interesting.

When you've got a team as high profile as the Dallas Cowboys of the 90's, I'm sure there's all sorts of insights Joe Schmoe can gain on the workings of their team.

The BCS Championship game is not a playoff game. It's just an additional BCS game. Instead of the Championship game rotating among the Sugar, Fiesta, Rose and Orange Bowls, they'll play those games as they regularly do, then a few days later #1 will play #2 in a Championship game.

So we're up to 10 BCS teams now?

For those of you who like statistics, here's one: 20-5-1. That's Barry Switzer's combined career record against Darrell Royal, Tom Osborne, Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno, Woody Hayes, and Bo Schembechler.

That's damn impressive.

 

[volfan2024]

1) The Cowboys only won one Super Bowl under Coach Switzer. It was an extremely talented team. There are a number of coaches who could have led them to a championship. That said, if your friend from Texas said Jimmy Johnson deserved all the credit, I wouldn't argue. If he says Jerry Jones deserves all the credit, he's an idiot.
2) Off the top of my head, I don't remember any players going to prison while at OU under coach Switzer. Jerry Parks, Nigel Clay, Bernard Hall, and Charles Thompson all committed acts that eventually led to their incarceration in early '89. Coach Switzer resigned shortly after Thompson was arrested. I'll be the first to admit that things were out of control at the end of Coach Switzer's reign in Norman. However, that's 4 guys committing acts in about a 2 month period. It's not as if OU had guys going to prison every year. Some of Switzer's players, the late David Overstreet comes to mind, ran afoul of the law after they left OU, but that happens at most programs. For example, Leonard Little and Dwayne Goodrich have run into serious legal troubles. I don't hold Fulmer responsible for them. Sounds like your friend was probably a Texas fan.

He's much older than I am.He's retired teacher'coach.He's a Texas fan.He's no idiot by any means.Actually his grandson is on a track scholarship at Alabama.Howvever, I told him I use to be a big cowboys fan and he remarked his was until Switzer came there.That's how the conversation came about.He even reminded me his feelings about Switzer.Personally I liked Barry Switzer.I basically just let him talk.

 

[hatvol96]

He's much older than I am.He's retired teacher'coach.He's a Texas fan.He's no idiot by any means.Actually his grandson is on a track scholarship at Alabama.Howvever, I told him I use to be a big cowboys fan and he remarked his was until Switzer came there.That's how the conversation came about.He even reminded me his feelings about Switzer.Personally I liked Barry Switzer.I basically just let him talk.

Idiot was probably a bit strong. I'll let the Cowboys success, or lack thereof, after the players Jimmy Johnson brought in speak for the football acumen of Jerry Jones. As a Texas fan, I would have been shocked if he had anything but antipathy towards Coach Switzer.

 

[volfan2024]

Idiot was probably a bit strong. I'll let the Cowboys success, or lack thereof, after the players Jimmy Johnson brought in speak for the football acumen of Jerry Jones. As a Texas fan, I would have been shocked if he had anthing but antipathy towards Coach Switzer.

That's cool.Actually, he's the kind of a guy you can shoot the bull with all day long.

 

[bleedingorange]

Guys i honestly dont know how u can even compare Fulmer to Switzer, he aint even in Switzers league if u ask me :twocents:

 

[WA_Vol]

Guys i honestly dont know how u can even compare Fulmer to Switzer, he aint even in Switzers league if u ask me :twocents:

I dont see Fulmer ever gettin an opportunity to coach in the NFL. I'm not sure he can win multiple NC's either.

 

[milohimself]

Think Fulmer is getting a little too old to jump to the NFL? I'd assume most teams would like to try and pick up a long-term coach. Everybody wants their own Bill Cowher.

 

[hatvol96]

Think Fulmer is getting a little too old to jump to the NFL? I'd assume most teams would like to try and pick up a long-term coach. Everybody wants their own Bill Cowher.

Age wouldn't hold Fulmer back. Competence would.

 

[jakez4ut]

Anyone who reads the board with regularity knows my feelings regarding both Barry Switzer and Phillip Fulmer. Those aside, there is an interesting parallel. Switzer began his career with unprecedented success. He won two National Championships and had easily the best winning percentage among D-I coaches. Then, he had three consecutive 4 loss seasons, as well as some very public personal and discipline problems. I would compare Fulmer's current situation to where Switzer stood going into the '84 season. How did Switzer respond to the heat? The next four seasons were: 9-2-1, 11-1(National Championsip), 11-1, 11-1. Those last three years they were 0-3 against Miami, 33-0 against the rest of the world. Does anyone on the board see Fulmer putting together a similar resurgence? I'll grant that the current SEC is far more difficult to navigate that the Big Eight of the mid-'80s. However, I would be interested to see how many of our posters think our current coach can string together a number of 11-2, SEC Championship caliber seasons.

Nice post, and a lot of interesting points brought up in the course of this thread....

and i for one, don't see the same string of 10 and 11 win seasons coming in CPF's immediate future...but only for the reason you stated toward the end of your post...the SEC today is far different from the Big 8 back then...

having said, that, i don't think there's any reason why we shouldn't be expected to have several 9 and 10 win seasons in the near future. in today's environment, i think that would be a better barometer...If we become a program that begins to average around 8 wins a season, for an extended period of time, then one would have to make the assumption that we have become average at best.

As long as we are going to have a 12 game schedule...9 wins or more should be the expectation each year...(and really, it's the number of losses that get me....more than 3 losses, and you begin to look very average) throw in a couple of SEC championships every so often and i think that would be good. someone posted in another thread that there are 6 teams that are capable of winning the SEC in any given year...that i agree with. So, the logic behind the thread is that if each of those 6 won in any given decade, that at least 4 of those teams should have multiple SEC championships in any 10 year peroid....If TN could win 2-3 SEC championships a decade, i could live with that. and given all the tradition, money, fan base, facilities, etc...i don't see that as being to great an expectation...and chances are if you are doing that with that kind of regularity, chances are at least one of those years, you'd be in NT contention.