Taxes and the Mega-Wealthy

[NorthDallas40]

They are taxed at capital gains rate and EL is shocked.

Being a lawyer he is just now learning there is such a thing.

He is outraged and wants us to be outraged too.

She. And no way she’s a damn lawyer.

 

[McDad]

You want a fair tax? The most fair and most equitable tax is the head tax. Take the budget and divide by the number of eligible voters. Can't afford the tax? Well then, you better be very vocal about reducing spending and borrowing. You want to pay more because of your patriotism? Well then, you better find some folks who cannot pay and pay their share.

 

[hog88]

You want a fair tax? The most fair and most equitable tax is the head tax. Take the budget and divide by the number of eligible voters. Can't afford the tax? Well then, you better be very vocal about reducing spending and borrowing. You want to pay more because of your patriotism? Well then, you better find some folks who cannot pay and pay their share.

The most fair tax is the federal government to bill each state for it's services (original scope) and leave it up to the states to collect the money to pay that bill.

 

[utvolpj]

You want a fair tax? The most fair and most equitable tax is the head tax. Take the budget and divide by the number of eligible voters. Can't afford the tax? Well then, you better be very vocal about reducing spending and borrowing. You want to pay more because of your patriotism? Well then, you better find some folks who cannot pay and pay their share.

"Budget"

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The intent is also to get false information into the brains of people. Somewhere at a water cooler today some morons are talking about Buffett paying a 0.1% tax rate.

Meh, it wouldn't be misinformation. It would be factual... at least with regards to his "effective" tax rate.

 

[0nelilreb]

You want a fair tax? The most fair and most equitable tax is the head tax. Take the budget and divide by the number of eligible voters. Can't afford the tax? Well then, you better be very vocal about reducing spending and borrowing. You want to pay more because of your patriotism? Well then, you better find some folks who cannot pay and pay their share.

 

[McDad]

The most fair tax is the federal government to bill each state for it's services (original scope) and leave it up to the states to collect the money to pay that bill.

Either way you will eventually get down to the point where the citizen in each state will be responsible for "X" amount of money. If Alaska has oil lease revenues which cover each citizen's share and foots the bill, fine by me.

 

[C-south]

So people that helped write the tax laws are trying to expose the ones who use the laws to their advantage so the ones that pay no taxes at all can be upset about it?

 

[Orangeburst]

There goes my plans for a new Ford Fiesta

 

[n_huffhines]

I see both sides of this. The study is framed in a stupid way, but let's not pretend that $95B of Bezos' "unrealized" wealth is actually all unrealized. A lot of it is unrealized, but a lot of it is paying for his lifestyle and he's able to write it off, so it's realized, it's just not legally taxable.

 

[evillawyer]

Explanation from pro publica as to why they're publishing this data

Why We Are Publishing the Tax Secrets of the .001% — ProPublica

 

[McDad]

I see both sides of this. The study is framed in a stupid way, but let's not pretend that $95B of Bezos' "unrealized" wealth is actually all unrealized. A lot of it is unrealized, but a lot of it is paying for his lifestyle and he's able to write it off, so it's realized, it's just not legally taxable.

Can you walk me through how you see his unrealized wealth is paying for his lifestyle? He gets a modest salary (46 million) from Amazon.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Explanation from pro publica as to why they're publishing this data

Why We Are Publishing the Tax Secrets of the .001% — ProPublica

How fortunate for them that they are able to easily rationalize why the “good” realized by their actions outweighs the privacy rights of the affected individuals

 

[n_huffhines]

Can you walk me through how you see his unrealized wealth is paying for his lifestyle? He gets a modest salary (46 million) from Amazon.

Do you think everything he owns is actually in his name? I'm just guessing, but I'm guessing that he enjoys luxury real estate that wasn't paid for out his salary. A $500k weekend in Vegas isn't paid for out of his salary. He's there on "business".

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Big, big report from pro publica today. They got tax records for America's wealthiest, and not surprisingly, the wealthiest are playing the system to pay only a small percentage of their wealth over on taxes.

Are any of these people breaking the law?

 

[allvol123]

Meh, it wouldn't be misinformation. It would be factual... at least with regards to his "effective" tax rate.

It is purposeful massaging. We people discuss their tax rate they are discussing the percentage they paid versus what they earned.

 

[McDad]

Do you think everything he owns is actually in his name? I'm just guessing, but I'm guessing that there is enjoys luxury real estate that wasn't paid for out his salary. A $500k weekend in Vegas isn't paid for out of his salary. He's there on "business".

I understand you now. Thanks.

Bezos and Amazon are separate entities. His (personal) unrealized wealth, shares of stock at stock price, appreciation of assets aren't "paying" for his lifestyle. The only way to accomplish that as far as I can see is to either capitalize the wealth or take out loans against it.

The lifestyle enrichment is through Amazon as a corporation. And there is no doubt he and his coporate accounting team make use of every available expense, even those (especially those?) which provide perks for his lifestyle.

 

[0nelilreb]

I understand you now. Thanks.

Bezos and Amazon are separate entities. His (personal) unrealized wealth, shares of stock at stock price, appreciation of assets aren't "paying" for his lifestyle. The only way to accomplish that as far as I can see is to either capitalize the wealth or take out loans against it.

The lifestyle enrichment is through Amazon as a corporation. And there is no doubt he and his coporate accounting team make use of every available expense, even those (especially those?) which provide perks for his lifestyle.

Those same taxes are also available for every single person in this country , it’s not like they are only reserved for a specific group . Nothing stopping anyone from using the same tax breaks and deductions. I’m going out on a limb here and guessing that if EL qualified for them like Bezos or Musk we would be seeing that article . Lol

 

[n_huffhines]

I understand you now. Thanks.

Bezos and Amazon are separate entities. His (personal) unrealized wealth, shares of stock at stock price, appreciation of assets aren't "paying" for his lifestyle. The only way to accomplish that as far as I can see is to either capitalize the wealth or take out loans against it.

The lifestyle enrichment is through Amazon as a corporation. And there is no doubt he and his coporate accounting team make use of every available expense, even those (especially those?) which provide perks for his lifestyle.

So Amazon has never made a payment to a company owned by Bezos? This seems impossible. I just found an article that says he owns 15 companies. He can take pay as a consulting fee from Amazon to one of his companies showing no profit, and there you go, realized but untaxable wealth.

This stuff is so easy for the rich.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

If unrealized gains are taxed, will those with unrealized losses be issued credits by the government?

Who gets to determine the subjective value of non-publicly traded equities?

We already have wealth tax. It’s called property tax. It’s collected at the local and state levels.

 

[jaybird_1981]

I would really like to not turn VN into a reddit sub forum.

I saw this on reddit, too.

Did you read the report?

Reddit & Twitter is all she has.

 

[McDad]

Those same taxes are also available for every single person in this country , it’s not like they are only reserved for a specific group . Nothing stopping anyone from using the same tax breaks and deductions. I’m going out on a limb here and guessing that if EL qualified for them like Bezos or Musk we would be seeing that article . Lol

There are trips and things I run through my corporation. If I can legitimately mix business with pleasure, I will.

 

[0nelilreb]

There are trips and things I run through my corporation. If I can legitimately mix business with pleasure, I will.

Everyone takes advantage of the laws that are on the books ... or they aren’t very bright , and deserve exactly what they pay .

 

[McDad]

So Amazon has never made a payment to a company owned by Bezos? This seems impossible. I just found an article that says he owns 15 companies. He can take pay as a consulting fee from Amazon to one of his companies showing no profit, and there you go, realized but untaxable wealth.

This stuff is so easy for the rich.

It doesn't matter. Here's why, Amazon pays BezosCorp a consulting fee. It's an expense to Amazon and a receipt to BezosCorp. But the only way Bezos is personally getting money from BezosCorp is money moving from BezosCorp to Jeff through payroll, dividends, corporate loans, rent, etc. And everything, except the corporate loan will hit Bezos's personal taxes.

 

[volinbham]

I am about halfway through it. One thing of note so far, and EL's sentence structure gives insight to it, there is a lot of intermingling of "wealth", and "income". I think that is done intentionally.

As you know, we do not have a wealth tax in this country. And income under our system is classified as earned and unearned which are taxed differently.

noticed that in EL's interpretation.