Ten Years Later, Boy's 'Hand of Hope' Continues to Spark Debate

#51
#51
rjd970 said:
The child does. If one believes that life begins at conception and then a natural miscarriage happens 6 weeks later, was that child not denied the free will you think is so important? And while the child was not lost to "evil", it was lost to a set design so the rest of us could practice free will....by your explanation.

Either way, the child loses out by virtue of a designer's design or lack of intervetion to give that child the same chance everybody else had. It's either negligence or callousness on the part of the designer.

The free will explanation simply doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

That's assuming it was misfortune for the being in question. If they felt no pain or had any cognitive abilities, did they really suffer? And obviously it did not have a chance to sin (unless you believe in original sin, then it's off to purgatory!) it would go to heaven directly. Thus, not a callous or uncaring God... I guess. I don't really know, I am just trying to logically toss this around.
 
#52
#52
rjd970 said:
The child does. If one believes that life begins at conception and then a natural miscarriage happens 6 weeks later, was that child not denied the free will you think is so important? And while the child was not lost to "evil", it was lost to a set design so the rest of us could practice free will....by your explanation.

Either way, the child loses out by virtue of a designer's design or lack of intervetion to give that child the same chance everybody else had. It's either negligence or callousness on the part of the designer.

The free will explanation simply doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

How does the child lose if he misses a short moment on earth but lives an eternity in heaven. Have you seen the suffering that happens here on earth? There have been times in my life when suffering was very thick around me that I entertained the idea of wishing I had never had to deal with it. Like I said there is good and bad, life is good but you will most likely have to suffer some along the way. How is it a bad thing if you are spared the suffering because of circumstance and get to enjoy nothing but love and goodness?
 
#53
#53
I see no reason to connect religion and abortion. While it often is by both sides, I think it muddies the debate (as it has here).
 
#54
#54
KB5252 said:
How does the child lose if he misses a short moment on earth but lives an eternity in heaven. Have you seen the suffering that happens here on earth? There have been times in my life when suffering was very thick around me that I entertained the idea of wishing I had never had to deal with it. Like I said there is good and bad, life is good but you will most likely have to suffer some along the way. How is it a bad thing if you are spared the suffering because of circumstance and get to enjoy nothing but love and goodness?
Click to expand...

Now it seems you're going full circle back? Why have free will if the suffering is so bad? Wouldn't it be better to be mindless robots, no miscarriages, and guarantee ourselves a spot in heaven? That is basically what the miscarried life got, with no chance to have the free will.

You said yourself in justifying the existence of miscarriages that free will was the greatest gift....

I think part of the bad involves diseases and what have you. In the end he gave us the greatest gift, good and free will.
Click to expand...

...so, how would the child not be losing out here if he is denied this greatest gift? And for the stated reason that the rest of us can experience it?

And this doesn't even address the conundrum that we would basically guarantee all aborted babies a spot in heaven because they would be just a sinless as if they were miscarried naturally.
 
#55
#55
rjd970 said:
Now it seems you're going full circle back? Why have free will if the suffering is so bad? Wouldn't it be better to be mindless robots, no miscarriages, and guarantee ourselves a spot in heaven? That is basically what the miscarried life got, with no chance to have the free will.

You said yourself in justifying the existence of miscarriages that free will was the greatest gift....



...so, how would the child not be losing out here if he is denied this greatest gift? And for the stated reason that the rest of us can experience it?

And this doesn't even address the conundrum that we would basically guarantee all aborted babies a spot in heaven because they would be just a sinless as if they were miscarried naturally.
Click to expand...

Freedom is every thing!
 
#56
#56
lawyers defends terrorists, murders etc for their right to live
innocent child has no advocate is mamma wants to kill the child.

"Those who are for abortion dont have to worry about it happening to them..."
-Ronald Reagan
 
#57
#57
volinbham said:
I see no reason to connect religion and abortion. While it often is by both sides, I think it muddies the debate (as it has here).
Click to expand...

Typically I don't either. But when the point comes up that natural miscarriages are not murder, but it should be reasonable to believe a designer was behind how everything is, it starts to become relevant as to whether or not said designer is responsible, and in fact, guilty of murder...either willful or by negligence of design.
 
#58
#58
rjd970 said:
Typically I don't either. But when the point comes up that natural miscarriages are not murder, but it should be reasonable to believe a designer was behind how everything is, it starts to become relevant as to whether or not said designer is responsible, and in fact, guilty of murder...either willful or by negligence of design.
Click to expand...

The designer didn't create a corrupted body....
 
#59
#59
rjd970 said:
Typically I don't either. But when the point comes up that natural miscarriages are not murder, but it should be reasonable to believe a designer was behind how everything is, it starts to become relevant as to whether or not said designer is responsible, and in fact, guilty of murder...either willful or by negligence of design.
Click to expand...

Tangental at best to the issue.
 
#60
#60
volinbham said:
Tangental at best to the issue.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but still relevant.

EDIT....

My point being, there is no difference between naturally occuring miscarriages and abortion if one believes in a designer. It is just a question of who is responsible for the murder.

Personally, I don't think, at least in the first 6 weeks, there is any murder at all with abortions or miscarriages...designer or not.
 
Last edited:
#61
#61
rjd970 said:
My point being, there is no difference between naturally occuring miscarriages and abortion if one believes in a designer. It is just a question of who is responsible for the murder.
Click to expand...

Disagree completely but this is a topic for another thread.
 
#63
#63
rjd970 said:
My point being, there is no difference between naturally occuring miscarriages and abortion if one believes in a designer. It is just a question of who is responsible for the murder.
Click to expand...

I agree with VBH, really don't get this.
 
#65
#65
rjd970 said:
Maybe, but still relevant.

EDIT....

My point being, there is no difference between naturally occuring miscarriages and abortion if one believes in a designer. It is just a question of who is responsible for the murder.

Personally, I don't think, at least in the first 6 weeks, there is any murder at all with abortions or miscarriages...designer or not.
Click to expand...

I'm with them....this is a screwed up view IMO. You don't see the difference between a person who is carrying a baby and tragically loses it and someone who coughs up $50 for a back alley coathanger abortion? You blind cuz.....

(yes, I took the liberty of using the back alley abortion thing for shock value, deal with it, lol)
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top