Tennessee's youth

#27
#27
IPleadInsanity said:
The numbers work well except for the comparison with UF. Slight advantage for UF in the youth department but huge difference in record.
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Whatever fits your narrative...if youth is freshmen, then yes...if it's underclassmen then no.

McElwain is doing a good job w/ UF this year...better than many anticipated. The last minute win against our guys was enough to give them the momentum to think they can do anything...which is something in and of itself. Plus, he can be as loose and aggressive as he wants to be...it's his first year and he'll get away with almost anything on the field.

but...you've got to admit the UF rebuild isn't really comparable w/ UT's.

I've said before - that D is going to put them in a position to win almost every weekend, which means he really didn't have to tweak that side of the ball.

as bad as everyone thinks it was, UF was 13 points and a missed game against Idaho from being an 11 win team last year...they had a fair share of boneheaded plays on O.

Both Mc and Nussmeir (his OC now) won championships at UA as OC's....two minds like that were enough to make a mediocre offense, serviceable.
 
#28
#28
knucklehead_vol said:
Fat guys with McDonald's as a sponsor. Still boils down to in game coaching mistakes. This team should be undefeated. It's not the players it's the coaches.
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PW's fumble in the ARK game
Medley's missed FG's -OU, FL and ARK
Penalties bring back TD's on Kamara's punt returns
literally a ton of missed tackles

among many others.

coaching tight and not to lose in the OU and FL games was indefensible. there's no excuse not to put your foot on the gas and finish those teams off. i don't like the time outs in the FL game. i don't like not going for two. i don't like kicking the FG in the OU game. all coaching.


but the players haven't helped.

the record is the result of a team effort.
 
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#29
#29
Brasszilla said:
can't wait to see people try to argue that this is bs lol
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The video is arguing (reporting) historical numbers, and here they are (including HC stat):

HC FR SO JR SR
VOLS JR 0 10 7 5
UF FR 4 4 7 7

By the numbers, Advantage UT.

2.5x more so's; equal jr's; only 2 fewer sr's; 4x fewer fresh; a 3rd year program vs 1st year program HC.

Chin up, next game (or as the video argues, next year/2016).
 
#30
#30
The problem with the youth excuse is when will Jones have depth/experience? Jones has had 20 players(not including Zach Stewart who should be here next year)have left from his recruiting classes!? That's a lot of depth and experience that he complains he doesn't and hasn't had. Some left on their own or got in trouble, others got pushed out some. Some of them were not good enough, but Jones brought them in.
 
#31
#31
Carlitovol said:
This is false. We aren't playing NEARLY the number of True FR that we did last year. Look at the stats in the video - the large majority of our starters are true Sophomores. Which makes sense because 2014 was the first "legit" class with a boatload of highly ranked players.

We have a pretty good number of upperclassmen who are contributing (JRM, Sutton, Vereen, Pearson, Randolph, McNeil, Jackson (if he were healthy), etc. I guess you could argue some of these guys aren't playing that well, but I don't think you can make the blanket statement that all upperclassmen are under-performing.

2014 was the first "all-star" recruiting class for Butch. These are the sophomores who are providing major contributions thus far this season. 2013 was a solid class, but most of the players were recruited by and committed to Dooley. There were a few players in that class that committed after Butch arrived (i.e. Dobbs flip from ASU).
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No, it's not false. I never said "start" freshmen, I said "play" freshmen; and sophomores are considered underclassmen. Aside from a few positions, starting doesn't mean a whole lot because of rotations. And yes we are playing NEARLY the same amount of freshmen as last year. Not as many, but still playing a lot.

And listing 7 upperclassmen is not a PRETTY GOOD AMOUNT. It's actually lousy. I never made the blanket statement that the entire upperclass is under performing, read my post again.

CDD was in way over his head in all aspects of this job, I don't think you'll find anyone defending him,... but it's not like he recruited players from St. Mary's School for the Blind and Incompetent. My point is, it's been 3 years and at some point the development of ours players by the coaching staff needs to be addressed; whether they're players recruited by the staff, or players already here...
 
#33
#33
pdogg said:
The problem with the youth excuse is when will Jones have depth/experience? Jones has had 20 players(not including Zach Stewart who should be here next year)have left from his recruiting classes!? That's a lot of depth and experience that he complains he doesn't and hasn't had. Some left on their own or got in trouble, others got pushed out some. Some of them were not good enough, but Jones brought them in.
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we signed over 60 players the last two years. no way all of them were going to stay.
 
#34
#34
I watched Memphis for the first time this year. They played football like a well coached team. Walk-ons, etc. They are even in the playoff picture. Wtf? So don't blame youth and players. Rednecks will be rednecks with their charts. Tired of you Negavols making excuses and blaming players for the losses.
 
#35
#35
jakez4ut said:
we signed over 60 players the last two years. no way all of them were going to stay.
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Exactly! Others were pushed out to bring in hopefully more talented, but also younger players. That's my point. That plays into the whole youth/ experience narrative.
 
#36
#36
knucklehead_vol said:
I watched Memphis for the first time this year. They played football like a well coached team. Walk-ons, etc. They are even in the playoff picture. Wtf? So don't blame youth and players. Rednecks will be rednecks with their charts. Tired of you Negavols making excuses and blaming players for the losses.
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so, just to set the record straight...UM's loss last weekend was 100% on Harbaugh...right?
 
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#37
#37
JC61 said:
so, just to set the record straight...UM's loss last weekend was 100% on Harbaugh...right?
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Okay you want to compare the punter fumbling to say the last quarter of the Florida game? Not quite comparable. If that is what happened in both the OU and Florida game then fine. Players fault. But play calling and lack of execution by the players which ultimately falls on the players is coaching. And how about Jones accept that and take some of the responsibility. He is very good at redirecting to the stupid, stupid knoxville media.
 
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#38
#38
knucklehead_vol said:
Okay you want to compare the punter fumbling to say the last quarter of the Florida game? Not quite comparable. If that is what happened in both the OU and Florida game then fine. Players fault. But play calling and lack of execution by the players which ultimately falls on the players is coaching. And how about Jones accept that and take some of the responsibility. He is very good at redirecting to the stupid, stupid knoxville media.
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no...it isn't; however, maybe that punter should have been coached better to fall on the ball...game over, UM wins.

While coaching wasn't stellar during parts of the OU or UF game, I just don't see it as the single point of failure. Better execution of the plays called has to account for something and losing 2 games in the final couple minutes says as much to player execution as it does coaching.

OU's QB flat out made stuff happen and our guys had no answers....we were outcoached and outplayed late in that game. I see UF as more of botched assignments and poor tackling than anything. While I freely admit both may be part of coaching, the guys have got to make it happen on the field as well.
 
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#39
#39
JC61 said:
no...it isn't; however, maybe that punter should have been coached better to fall on the ball...game over, UM wins.

While coaching wasn't stellar during parts of the OU or UF game, I just don't see it as the single point of failure. Better execution of the plays called has to account for something and losing 2 games in the final couple minutes says as much to player execution as it does coaching.

OU's QB flat out made stuff happen and our guys had no answers....we were outcoached and outplayed late in that game. I see UF as more of botched assignments and poor tackling than anything. While I freely admit both may be part of coaching, the guys have got to make it happen on the field as well.
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I agree with most of your post. But the chart thing..come on. A fifth grader knows to go for two. And running plays and leaving time on the clock. The 2nd to last drive I think, was one of the worst attempts at play calling I have ever seen. Everyone knew at that point he would run up the middle. Arkansas is another example. Awful play calling. Do you wonder if Chubb was in if things would have been different? How many points did GA score against Mizzou?
 
#40
#40
knucklehead_vol said:
I agree with most of your post. But the chart thing..come on. A fifth grader knows to go for two. And running plays and leaving time on the clock. The 2nd to last drive I think, was one of the worst attempts at play calling I have ever seen. Everyone knew at that point he would run up the middle. Arkansas is another example. Awful play calling. Do you wonder if Chubb was in if things would have been different? How many points did GA score against Mizzou?
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I'm not saying, nor have I that he's called perfect games.

I won't put Arkansas on him at all though...he called a pretty good one I just think the Hogs had too much beef on the line and it eventually wore guys down...plus our passing game was horrid....and not due to the plays called.

As far as Chubb, doesn't matter...really hate he got hurt but he didn't play. I would like to have Maggit, Gaulden and a few others healthy and playing as well. I thought I read Michel was nicked up also...either way, goes to show balance is key to winning, especially in the SEC.
 
#41
#41
IPleadInsanity said:
The numbers work well except for the comparison with UF. Slight advantage for UF in the youth department but huge difference in record.
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Not really. Florida juniors and seniors both came from top 5 classes so they're just as talented as their underclassmen.

Our juniors and seniors came from classes ranked in the 20s so they're not close to the talent of our underclassmen.

Just look at Florida's best players. Bullard and Hargraves. One senior and One junior. Our best players are sophomores. Hurd and Barnett.
 
#42
#42
While I do agree we are a young team, where do we stand in experience. That is the one thing I don't agree with. Most other teams as young as us or actually serverAl of the good older teams probably do not have as much SEC playing experience. We played a lot of true freshmen last year. Most of those other veteran teams do not have that luxury, and yes it is a luxury that our sophomores are experienced. Look at Alabama , they do not start a lot of freshmen, but their sophomores and juniors do not have the playing experience our sophomores do. That is my disagreement with the young team argument.
 
#43
#43
governmentmule said:
I know,but they are a very young team and not much depth,look at what the injuries have done to them this year,if they had a lot of older players,there would be a lot of starters red shirting
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Depth played a big part in UT's losses.
 
#44
#44
knucklehead_vol said:
I agree with most of your post. But the chart thing..come on. A fifth grader knows to go for two. And running plays and leaving time on the clock. The 2nd to last drive I think, was one of the worst attempts at play calling I have ever seen. Everyone knew at that point he would run up the middle. Arkansas is another example. Awful play calling. Do you wonder if Chubb was in if things would have been different? How many points did GA score against Mizzou?
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there wasn't much wrong with the coaching in that game.

play calling, game plan...all was working fine. we dominated the 1st half.

we missed a FG. had a punt return called back on a penalty, and freshman WR fumbled on the ARK 7 going in for a score.

we left at least 13, probably 17 points on the field in the ARK game, which allowed ARK to get back to running down hill and taking advantage of the match up advantage they had.

the only coaching issue i had was the conservative play calling at the end of the 1st half. ARK got the ball back and scored just before the half. that did piss me off.

but it shouldn't have gotten to that. by that point in the game, had we not goofed up, we should have been up 3 scores.

as for Chubb...that doesn't hold water. they got up 24-3 w/out him. and michel and marshall didn't exactly clod around out there.
 
#45
#45
ddubb76 said:
While I do agree we are a young team, where do we stand in experience. That is the one thing I don't agree with. Most other teams as young as us or actually serverAl of the good older teams probably do not have as much SEC playing experience. We played a lot of true freshmen last year. Most of those other veteran teams do not have that luxury, and yes it is a luxury that our sophomores are experienced. Look at Alabama , they do not start a lot of freshmen, but their sophomores and juniors do not have the playing experience our sophomores do. That is my disagreement with the young team argument.
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To your point. Playing experience is very important and really does make a difference. The big advantage to playing Juniors and seniors is developmental. This is especially true in the line of scrimmage and linebackers. The other thing is acclimating to the speed of play. Kirkland is really fast as a linebacker but I have seen him so many times a step or two out of position to make the play. It won't be as noticeable or frequent next year and definitely not when he is a junior. But the process of developing into the college game is real. I will also say that it doesn't hurt to play young players as long as there is ample upper class leadership on the field to guide and cover for their inevitable mistakes. When I looked at our starters what I found was that over 50% of our starters don't even have 2 full years in the program (majority of our sophs are true sophs and not RS). This is not a recipe for a team to execute well consistently. In truth, these young players are really coached up quite well and it will certainly show going forward and especially next year as we can develop them more and roll some of the players like Drew Richmond et al into the scheme with what will then be upper classmen.

So, just to repeat what I have said multiple times. The future is very bright on Rocky Top. I believe you will see us competing for championships next year. And yes it would have been great to cheat the curve this year but some of our execution issues that happened late in OU and UF games are much less likely to happen next year.
 
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#46
#46
Dragon18 said:
To your point. Playing experience is very important and really does make a difference. The big advantage to playing Juniors and seniors is developmental. This is especially true in the line of scrimmage and linebackers. The other thing is acclimating to the speed of play. Kirkland is really fast as a linebacker but I have seen him so many times a step or two out of position to make the play. It won't be as noticeable or frequent next year and definitely not when he is a junior. But the process of developing into the college game is real. I will also say that it doesn't hurt to play young players as long as there is ample upper class leadership on the field to guide and cover for their inevitable mistakes. When I looked at our starters what I found was that over 50% of our starters don't even have 2 full years in the program (majority of our sophs are true sophs and not RS). This is not a recipe for a team to execute well consistently. In truth, these young players are really coached up quite well and it will certainly show going forward and especially next year as we can develop them more and roll some of the players like Drew Richmond et al into the scheme with what will then be upper classmen.

So, just to repeat what I have said multiple times. The future is very bright on Rocky Top. I believe you will see us competing for championships next year. And yes it would have been great to cheat the curve this year but some of our execution issues that happened late in OU and UF games are much less likely to happen next year.
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Al Wilson in 1998 was not the same Al Wilson in 1996.:thumbsup:

i think the next two years, you're going to see some folks really come in to their own. that D line could be NASTY.

agreed, future is looking good.
 
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#47
#47
knucklehead_vol said:
Fat guys with McDonald's as a sponsor. Still boils down to in game coaching mistakes. This team should be undefeated. It's not the players it's the coaches.
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So the coaches miss blocks, miss tackles, commit penalties, fumble, drop passes, throw bad passes, throw interceptions, get beat deep, and lose the games all by themselves.

While playcalling is a problem and maybe a few questionable discisions, but players play and coaches coach. Coaches don't lose game players do.

You can argue that the players may not have been set up for success but the players always lose the games not the coaches.

Your post has no logic, it is never all on the coaches. Not even Dooley lost all the games for them.
 
#48
#48
the florida coach is blessed with a great d this yr.wait until next season when the stars are gone to the nfl.there not recruiting great again this yr.i told everyone 8-4 7 -5 this yr .next yr we take the east and maybe the sec.the injuries have really hurt this team this yr.
 
#49
#49
A big wow to that clip. Too bad we lost so many decent players along the that would be those upperclassmen such as
Arnett transfer MichSt
Pig Howard transfer Dumass U
Dan Skipper TN Commit/Turncoat/Dooley pile avoider
Michael Williams transfer Brushy Mountain State
Maggitt, Gaulden, Jackson, Croom, Sanders, Tuttle (not upperclassmen) -- Infirmary
 
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