The beauty of the Jesus Narrative

#26
#26
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Please allow me to explain the difference since it appears you either don't see it, or are just choosing to ignore it.

Yes... I brought up "anger" as an opinion. It was a word I used among many others in a response to your post.
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Did I anger you with my post? If not, then why did you state that I simply posted to make persons 'angry'?

IBlvNTmWrk said:
You brought up "anger" as an assumption of how I must be feeling (almost LG' esque).
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:whistling:

IBlvNTmWrk said:
Can we agree that opinions and assumptions are not the same thing? Again... allow me to help with the distinct difference. The first is a belief reflecting what the person expressing it thinks, and the second (in reference to your assumption) is a reflection by you of what some else must be thinking or feeling (more closely related to arrogance).
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Did my initial post make you angry? Did I state that I was posting in order to make persons angry?
 
#27
#27
PKT_VOL said:
Good post. I like the Kant reference. I think you should have mentioned Nietzsche as well. Your post reminded me of one of my favorite quotes:

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" ~ Mohandas Gandhi
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A lot of truth but to lump every Christian in this group is sad. It's like all Muslims are terrorists.
 
#28
#28
OJ said:
A lot of truth but to lump every Christian in this group is sad. It's like all Muslims are terrorists.
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Coming from the man who says that I will burn in hell simply because I do not believe Christ is divine...
 
#29
#29
OJ said:
A lot of truth but to lump every Christian in this group is sad. It's like all Muslims are terrorists.
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I am not lumping anybody into anything. Just stating that there is a lot of truth in that statement. Secondly, it says a lot when secular folks like myself and Hindu's like Gandhi aspire to be Christ-like for all the wrong reasons (exempting the divinity which is seemingly most important to Christians). The best thing that could happen to Christianity in my opinion is for Christians to champion the ethics and morality of Christ over his divinity. Divinity (of all faiths) tends to screw up everything it touches. Much like our federal government.
 
#30
#30
therealUT said:
Did I anger you with my post? If not, then why did you state that I simply posted to make persons 'angry'?

:whistling:

Did my initial post make you angry? Did I state that I was posting in order to make persons angry?
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I believe I have answered that question, but I'll repeat it for consistency. No, I am not angry at all but rather in a very good mood which is how I feel most often.

Now, can you also answer questions or do you choose only to ask them?

True or False... did you make an assumption that I was angry?

If the answer is true (which would seem evident as it is substantiated by one of your previous posts), then I wasn't assuming anything in my previous post but rather was stating a fact. Should we now explore the difference between facts and assumptions?

If your answer is false, well... my preference would be that you really don't choose that option as it would be a less favorable option in terms of how it reflects on your character.
 
#32
#32
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I believe I have answered that question, but I'll repeat it for consistency. No, I am not angry at all but rather in a very good mood which is how I feel most often.

Now, can you also answer questions or do you choose only to ask them?

True or False... did you make an assumption that I was angry?

If the answer is true (which would seem evident as it is substantiated by one of your previous posts), then I wasn't assuming anything in my previous post but rather was stating a fact. Should we now explore the difference between facts and assumptions?

If your answer is false, well... my preference would be that you really don't choose that option as it would be a less favorable option in terms of how it reflects on your character.
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You brought up anger, not I. As much as you want to run in circles, I will not chase.
 
#33
#33
IBlvNTmWrk said:
True or False... did you make an assumption that I was angry?

If the answer is true (which would seem evident as it is substantiated by one of your previous posts), then I wasn't assuming anything in my previous post but rather was stating a fact. Should we now explore the difference between facts and assumptions?

If your answer is false, well... my preference would be that you really don't choose that option as it would be a less favorable option in terms of how it reflects on your character.
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therealUT said:
You brought up anger, not I.
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I have addressed this comment previously and directly.
therealUT said:
As much as you want to run in circles,
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Please show any evidence as to how I am running in circles.
therealUT said:
I will not chase.
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You are not chasing... you are dodging, diverting, and apparently the one running.

Please explain how asking a question that requires a one word answer (which you chose not to address) is running in circles, when I have already answered your question twice.

Please provide the link where OJ stated you would burn in hell.

It would appear, which is my assumption and no longer an opinion, that you are the one running in circles. I am not angry at you Trut, but there is an arrogance about you, imo, that is unnecessary. You seem to be a very knowledgeable individual that perhaps is trying too hard to prove your level of intelligence.
 
#34
#34
therealUT said:
Coming from the man who says that I will burn in hell simply because I do not believe Christ is divine...
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Christ is our sacrifice for our sins that separate us from Him. Outside of Christ there is no life. As for Hell, That is between you and Jesus. I find it hard to believe that you will spend your life and not encounter Jesus that will lead to salvation. Your too smart to not know this.Your like Paul that fought against the church until Jesus said enough is enough. You want to know what truth is? Truth is no matter what you do you will not be able to escape his love for you. Love never fails. He spoke the world into existence created the heavens and the earth. Knows the number hairs on your head and knows every star by name. I think He knows your name and what a champion you could be for Christ with your knowledge. I said I would pray for you to come to know him as King of Kings and Lord of lords. He's after you without a dought. I ran from him for years but I just gave out.
 
#35
#35
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I have addressed this comment previously and directly. Please show any evidence as to how I am running in circles. You are not chasing... you are dodging, diverting, and apparently the one running.

Please explain how asking a question that requires a one word answer (which you chose not to address) is running in circles, when I have already answered your question twice.

Please provide the link where OJ stated you would burn in hell.

It would appear, which is my assumption and no longer an opinion, that you are the one running in circles. I am not angry at you Trut, but there is an arrogance about you, imo, that is unnecessary. You seem to be a very knowledgeable individual that perhaps is trying too hard to prove your level of intelligence.
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Yes, I assumed you were angry when you decided to be the voice of either yourself (who was angry, but you will not admit) or the voice of some imaginary group of angry persons. Next time, when presented with only two viable options, I will choose that you stand to represent imaginary persons who have been angered (makes sense since you worship an imaginary person).

You made the assumption that I was posting to anger persons; I was not until just now, in the statement I made about your imaginary deity.

Feel free to call me arrogant simply because I do not buy into your the belief that your fairy tale is real.

As for OJ telling me burn in hell, read his posts and make the "gnashing of teeth" analogy with the Bible. Yes, I am assuming, without actually asking him to clarify, that he is positing that I will burn in hell for not believing that Jesus is the Son of God; of course, I could decide not to assume that and simply assert, on his statements alone, that he sees I will suffer torment for not believing Jesus is divine and in not believing I have handed myself over to Satan, whom, among Christian believers, is the incarnation of pure evil.

But, of course, that is trying to hard to prove my intelligence. I should just put reasoning aside and buy into an unsubstantiated and uncorroborated myth about the most fantastical things simply because it has been passed down through human testimony for two-thousand years.
 
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#36
#36
OJ said:
Christ is our sacrifice for our sins that separate us from Him. Outside of Christ there is no life. As for Hell, That is between you and Jesus. I find it hard to believe that you will spend your life and not encounter Jesus that will lead to salvation. Your too smart to not know this.Your like Paul that fought against the church until Jesus said enough is enough. You want to know what truth is? Truth is no matter what you do you will not be able to escape his love for you. Love never fails. He spoke the world into existence created the heavens and the earth. Knows the number hairs on your head and knows every star by name. I think He knows your name and what a champion you could be for Christ with your knowledge. I said I would pray for you to come to know him as King of Kings and Lord of lords. He's after you without a dought. I ran from him for years but I just gave out.
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Just to clear this up, OJ. Do you think individuals who do not believe in Jesus and/or deny his divinity burn in hell?
 
#37
#37
TRUT - I have several people in my family who are Unitarian and you articulate well their beliefs in regard to Jesus. My experience suggests he and his message are much more. I am glad to read however you keep an open mind - not many people are capable of that on this topic.
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#38
#38
therealUT said:
Just to clear this up, OJ. Do you think individuals who do not believe in Jesus and/or deny his divinity burn in hell?
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Before you answer OJ please consider how many people on this earth die (daily and throughout history) who have never heard of Jesus.

They haven't been dunked or sprinkled...
Never said the Lord's prayer or read John 3:16
Never heard Amazing Grace..
Never celebrated Christmas on the wrong date...etc...
Never given a dime to a church..
 
#39
#39
therealUT said:
Just to clear this up, OJ. Do you think individuals who do not believe in Jesus and/or deny his divinity burn in hell?
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I think believers in Christ will be with Him and non believers will be separated from Him. I think the absence of being without Jesus is Hell. If it's a lake of fire I'm not really sure but I do think to be absent from him would be the worst thing possible. There will be torment .
 
#40
#40
OJ said:
I think believers in Christ will be with Him and non believers will be separated from Him. I think the absence of being without Jesus is Hell. If it's a lake of fire I'm not really sure but I do think to be absent from him would be the worst thing possible. There will be torment .
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Thank you for your honesty.
 
#41
#41
therealUT said:
Yes, I assumed you were angry when you decided to be the voice of either yourself (who was angry, but you will not admit (previously asked and answered)) or the voice of some imaginary group of angry persons. Next time, when presented with only two viable options (there were many other preferable options), I will choose that you stand to represent imaginary persons who have been angered (makes sense since you worship an imaginary person).

You made the assumption (I expressed an opinion... thought we had that one covered) that I was posting to anger persons; I was not until just now, in the statement I made about your imaginary deity.

Feel free to call me arrogant simply because I do not buy into your the belief that your fairy tale is real. (I did not call you arrogant, but yes... it was inferred. However, it has nothing to do with whether or not you are a believer)

As for OJ telling me burn in hell, read his posts and make the "gnashing of teeth" analogy with the Bible. Yes, I am assuming, without actually asking him to clarify, that he is positing that I will burn in hell for not believing that Jesus is the Son of God (there are numerous interpretations of what the Biblical reference of "burning in hell" might mean. You are apparently a well read individual so I'm assuming you are aware of these); of course, I could decide not to assume that and simply assert, on his statements alone, that he sees I will suffer torment for not believing Jesus is divine and in not believing I have handed myself over to Satan, whom, among Christian believers, is the incarnation of pure evil.

But, of course, that is trying to (*two - sorry... temptation got the best of me) hard to prove my intelligence. I should just put reasoning aside and buy into a unsubstantiated and uncorroborated myth about the most fantastical things simply because it has been passed down through human testimony for two-thousand years.
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Trut... may you have a blessed day and a very Merry Christmas.
 
#43
#43
Lexvol said:
Before you answer OJ please consider how many people on this earth die (daily and throughout history) who have never heard of Jesus.

They haven't been dunked or sprinkled...
Never said the Lord's prayer or read John 3:16
Never heard Amazing Grace..
Never celebrated Christmas on the wrong date...etc...
Never given a dime to a church..
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I have no idea about all this. I don't know how he healed the blind or made the lame to walk. I don't understand how he can be the sheepfold and be the door to the sheepfold. How can He be a Lilly and a rose , how he can be a root and a branch, A lion and a lamb. All I know is I was lost and now I'm found. The things I used to do I don't do any more. Something has happened. I am woke up in the night with Him on my mind. He consumes my days. Like Paul said we don't see things clearly now. It's like looking through a cloudy glass buy when we see him face to face we will understand it all then.
 
#44
#44
OJ said:
I have no idea about all this. I don't know how he healed the blind or made the lame to walk. I don't understand how he can be the sheepfold and be the door to the sheepfold. How can He be a Lilly and a rose , how he can be a root and a branch, A lion and a lamb. All I know is I was lost and now I'm found. The things I used to do I don't do any more. Something has happened. I am woke up in the night with Him on my mind. He consumes my days. Like Paul said we don't see things clearly now. It's like looking through a cloudy glass buy when we see him face to face we will understand it all then.
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Don't take this the wrong way, but I would suggest you focus on your positive experiences and leave damnation out of your testimony and off the message boards.
 
#46
#46
therealUT said:
At least be direct; go **** yourself.
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I was being direct, and also trying to espouse the virtues of Jesus which you stated was the purpose of your post. Whether you choose to believe it or not, it was (and still is) sincere.
 
#47
#47
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I was being direct, and also trying to espouse the virtues of Jesus which you stated was the purpose of your post. Whether you choose to believe it or not, it was (and still is) sincere.
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Mine was sincere as well. Yes, I do not always live up to the moral code.
 
#48
#48
therealUT said:
I do not think that humans evolve morally; very few of the original secular humanists did either (Hume; Kant). The thing is, I do not think they cared whether or not humans do or do not evolve morally. They understand that it is tough to live a selfless life according to a rigorous moral code and that many are selfish and, in being so, will make life even that much tougher for those trying to live by a moral code (Kant says that the adoption of the imperatives leads to a life of torment and sacrifice).

Of course, this is the same thing that happens in the Jesus narrative. He lives by a higher moral code and, in doing so, is eventually scourged and crucified for being a rebel, blasphemer, heretic, atheist, Satanist, etc.

The personal adoption of the higher moral code is absolutely a deontological adoption and is not, in any way, utilitarian; however, the universal adoption of the higher moral code would be utilitarian, and the world would be a better place.
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I wonder if this is necessarily true - obviously "better" needs some defining but in the more abstract I wonder if the non-uniform moral code of humans actually moves the human race forward. (slight nod to the Matrix)
 
#49
#49
volinbham said:
I wonder if this is necessarily true - obviously "better" needs some defining but in the more abstract I wonder if the non-uniform moral code of humans actually moves the human race forward. (slight nod to the Matrix)
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Interesting discussion.

Volinbham, or anyone else, do you have a definition of "moving the human race forward"? Truly curious.
 
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