The Climate Change Bill. (Cap and Trade)

#4
#4
Just another example of how Barry and the rest of the socialist want to "fundamentally transform" us. This will further cripple our economy which is all by design.
 
#5
#5
"Something must be done. This is 'something.' Therefore, this must be done."
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#6
#6
volfanjustin said:
Just another example of how Barry and the rest of the socialist want to "fundamentally transform" us. This will further cripple our economy which is all by design.
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Looking for a new foil hat, where do you get yours?
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#8
#8
BigPapaVol said:
Looking for a new foil hat, where do you get yours?
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Fundamentally transform us was a direct quote from Obama, he said that not me. He is not dumb, he knows that this plan and all his tax increases will cripple our economy, there is no way that all his actions that are bad for us as a country are on accident. I truly believe he hates what this country stands for.
 
#9
#9
volfanjustin said:
Fundamentally transform us was a direct quote from Obama, he said that not me. He is not dumb, he knows that this plan and all his tax increases will cripple our economy, there is no way that all his actions that are bad for us as a country are on accident. I truly believe he hates what this country stands for.
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Absurd. He's not intentionally crippling our economy. He just doesn't know enough economics to keep from saying crap like bottom up economics. He believes free money helps the economy. In the near term, he's right about free money, as long as it's borrowed. He's mortgaging our future for our net negative citizens. Economically, it's dumb as hell, but it gets votes and that's his motive. The ramifications of his stupidity won't matter for some time into the future and won't impact his own candidacy.

He's like the CEOs who ceded power to the unions decades ago. They knew it wouf be some future sap's problem, so they capitulated. Voilà, you have GM.
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#10
#10
BigPapaVol said:
Absurd. He's not intentionally crippling our economy. He just doesn't know enough economics to keep from saying crap like bottom up economics. He believes free money helps the economy. In the near term, he's right about free money, as long as it's borrowed. He's mortgaging our future for our net negative citizens. Economically, it's dumb as hell, but it gets votes and that's his motive. The ramifications of his stupidity won't matter for some time into the future and won't impact his own candidacy.

He's like the CEOs who ceded power to the unions decades ago. They knew it wouf be some future sap's problem, so they capitulated. Voilà, you have GM.
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I agree with this, but at the same time I don't believe he is not smart enough to know what he is doing. Like I said I believe him when he said he wants to transform us. He thinks that we are too powerful and evil as a country and need to be knocked down a notch.
 
#11
#11
BigPapaVol said:
Absurd. He's not intentionally crippling our economy. He just doesn't know enough economics to keep from saying crap like bottom up economics. He believes free money helps the economy. In the near term, he's right about free money, as long as it's borrowed. He's mortgaging our future for our net negative citizens. Economically, it's dumb as hell, but it gets votes and that's his motive. The ramifications of his stupidity won't matter for some time into the future and won't impact his own candidacy.

He's like the CEOs who ceded power to the unions decades ago. They knew it wouf be some future sap's problem, so they capitulated. Voilà, you have GM.
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Exactly. He wholeheartedly believes he is doing what is best for our country. Unfortunately, you don't learn much about economics in law school.
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#12
#12
volfanjustin said:
I agree with this, but at the same time I don't believe he is not smart enough to know what he is doing. Like I said I believe him when he said he wants to transform us. He thinks that we are too powerful and evil as a country and need to be knocked down a notch.
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His intelligence is vastly overstated. He makes a good presentation. He speaks well. He is an economic simpleton. Makes LG look like Greenspan.
 
#13
#13
paul1454 said:
Exactly. He wholeheartedly believes he is doing what is best for our country. Unfortunately, you don't learn much about economics in law school.
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You all have vastly underestimated this guy, I would feel a lot better if all this were an accident.
 
#14
#14
BigPapaVol said:
His intelligence is vastly overstated. He makes a good presentation. He speaks well. He is an economic simpleton. Makes LG look like Greenspan.
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I don't believe he is as smart as the media and liberals want us to think he is. But I can look at his advisors, members of his cabinet, his associations, preacher and political allies and understand what they think of America and what they want it to be.
 
#15
#15
volfanjustin said:
You all have vastly underestimated this guy, I would feel a lot better if all this were an accident.
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I promise you, understanding economics is not a prerequisite to intelligence. I know many extremely intelligent and highly-educated people who know nothing about economics.
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#16
#16
volfanjustin said:
I don't believe he is as smart as the media and liberals want us to think he is. But I can look at his advisors, members of his cabinet, his associations, preacher and political allies and understand what they think of America and what they want it to be.
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they firmly believe that we should be more socialist and use our riches to cure everyone's ills, but they can't quite piece together that it's the perfect solution to ending our riches.
 
#17
#17
i chose to believe he is an idiot and thinks all his socialist economic advisor experts know what they are talking about. geitner probably wants to kill himself. if he truly understands this stuff and still follows it, then that is far more disturbing.
 
#19
#19
#20
#20
volinbham said:
The 2 guys that support this don't give any specifics about how this particular bill will achieve the vague goals they both agree on.

The guy who is against the bill at least gives specifics as to why it's not good legislation.

On those points alone, the 3rd guy wins the debate.
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I agree. The first two really were, "we need to do something" and, "this is something".

I'm not sure I fully agree about the gas/coal argument, though. I definitely don't know the details of the bill, but it would seem that you would be 'taxed' per ton of CO2 emitted. Natural gas emits less carbon and is more efficient than coal, so it's cost increase per kw-hr would be less than that for coal. Is this guy advocating not placing the cap on gas at all just because it is better than coal?
 
#21
#21
volinbham said:
The 2 guys that support this don't give any specifics about how this particular bill will achieve the vague goals they both agree on.

The guy who is against the bill at least gives specifics as to why it's not good legislation.

On those points alone, the 3rd guy wins the debate.
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Not that I even agree that it is presented in a debate format, but broad stokes cover a lot of issues and nit picking covers less from a weaker position.
 
#22
#22
orangeblooded2 said:
Not that I even agree that it is presented in a debate format, but broad stokes cover a lot of issues and nit picking covers less from a weaker position.
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it's not in debate format but calling the first 2 broad strokes is a bit misleading. They are massive strokes - they don't mention one specific about the bill or even the goals they are trying to achieve other than moving from high-carbon to low-carbon.

It's like being for reducing world hunger...
 
#23
#23
volinbham said:
it's not in debate format but calling the first 2 broad strokes is a bit misleading. They are massive strokes - they don't mention one specific about the bill or even the goals they are trying to achieve other than moving from high-carbon to low-carbon.

It's like being for reducing world hunger...
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I'm for reducing hunger. Campaign donations can be sent to volnation, c/o me. I'll feed somebody.
 
#25
#25
volinbham said:
an important first step...
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actually helping put together a food for Haiti project here through an outfit called Numana. Incredible story. Just started moving forward with this thing and have already shipped 12.5 million + meals to Haiti.
 
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