The coaching search revisited

#51
#51
99gator said:
Let’s rewind the clock a little.

  • How quickly we forget. The last coaching search was a mess from the get go. It resulted in an AD getting fired and Fulmer having to come to the rescue in the first place.
  • The hires from that year have been an epic fail. The “A” list were Chip Kelly and Scott Frost. I’ll cut Frost some slack because I think he had more work to do than anyone else, but it’s still a fail at this point. Dan Mullen was largely viewed as a shoulder shrug hire. Not bad, but not all that great either. Jimbo has had some success and A&M has gotten better every year. The only guy to win a championship at this point…..Mario Cristobal. Yep, Cristobal. But, there are a lot of Willie Taggarts in that group.
  • I think people need to remember what a home run hire is at this point. Once in a blue moon, you have a guy build a dominant program at a doormat. But, that’s extremely rare. You’re normal “home run hire” is a guy like Matt Campbell who hasn’t won anything, but has done as well or better than anyone else who’s coached where he is. Campbell isn’t going to win the Big XII, so judging him that way is not fair. IMO, this is the kind of candidate you need to look for. A head coach, with experience, who has overperformed where he is even if the results don’t appear to be spectacular on the surface. He's 40 years old. He's been a head coach at 2 places. His first head coaching gig was at 32 years old.

Pruitt has failed, IMO. But, why would I pass judgment that way? Is it because he hasn’t won a championship? No. Is it because he’s 0-8 against Florida, Georgia, and Alabama? No.


He has failed because he has not separated Tennessee from the “other” pack out there in the league. By failing to do that, Tennessee did not go bowling in 2018. They robbed themselves of a better bowl in 2019. What bowl do they go to at 9-3 instead of 7-5? And they are going to fail to go to a bowl game this year. That isn’t because of Florida, Georgia, and Alabama. That’s because of Vanderbilt, Georgia State, BYU, Kentucky and Arkansas.


At this point, they were supposed to be clearly better than the also rans of the league and they aren’t. The other obvious thing is to start naming things Tennessee does really well or does at the level they need to. I can’t think of any.


But, the reality is the “home run hire” is a fantasy, not just at Tennessee, but everywhere.

JMO
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Sounds like you described Schiano our Kiffin both could have been hired. Our I would have tried to get Hugh Freeze.
 
#53
#53
Rickyvol77 said:
What has Lane done at ole miss?
he has lost to Florida, Bama by 3 TDS or more
He lost to Arkansas by 2 TDs
He’s lost to Auburn
He’s beaten South Carolina and Vandy
He beat Uk by 1 pt after they missed two chip shot FGs

The UK game is the only difference between what he and Pruitt has accomplished on the field. And I think Pruitt has underachieved as well
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Year 1 vs. Year 3.
 
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#54
#54
Jaws said:
Regarding home run hires:

Coaching record after 32 games:

- Steve Spurrier - 26-6
- Urban Meyer - 26-6
- Dan Mullen - 26-6

Elite company.
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LOL None of them started with a 26-6 record as HC, what are you talking about? 2 of the 3 was worse than 26-6 starting at UF as well.

Now, you were close on these two.
Fulmer started 25-7 but won the next 8 at 33-7.

This is elite, 31-1.
Didn’t lose his 2nd game until year 5, 52-2 after 7 years, 52-2.
Robert Neyland
 
#55
#55
99gator said:
Let’s rewind the clock a little.

  • How quickly we forget. The last coaching search was a mess from the get go. It resulted in an AD getting fired and Fulmer having to come to the rescue in the first place.
  • The hires from that year have been an epic fail. The “A” list were Chip Kelly and Scott Frost. I’ll cut Frost some slack because I think he had more work to do than anyone else, but it’s still a fail at this point. Dan Mullen was largely viewed as a shoulder shrug hire. Not bad, but not all that great either. Jimbo has had some success and A&M has gotten better every year. The only guy to win a championship at this point…..Mario Cristobal. Yep, Cristobal. But, there are a lot of Willie Taggarts in that group.
  • I think people need to remember what a home run hire is at this point. Once in a blue moon, you have a guy build a dominant program at a doormat. But, that’s extremely rare. You’re normal “home run hire” is a guy like Matt Campbell who hasn’t won anything, but has done as well or better than anyone else who’s coached where he is. Campbell isn’t going to win the Big XII, so judging him that way is not fair. IMO, this is the kind of candidate you need to look for. A head coach, with experience, who has overperformed where he is even if the results don’t appear to be spectacular on the surface. He's 40 years old. He's been a head coach at 2 places. His first head coaching gig was at 32 years old.

Pruitt has failed, IMO. But, why would I pass judgment that way? Is it because he hasn’t won a championship? No. Is it because he’s 0-8 against Florida, Georgia, and Alabama? No.


He has failed because he has not separated Tennessee from the “other” pack out there in the league. By failing to do that, Tennessee did not go bowling in 2018. They robbed themselves of a better bowl in 2019. What bowl do they go to at 9-3 instead of 7-5? And they are going to fail to go to a bowl game this year. That isn’t because of Florida, Georgia, and Alabama. That’s because of Vanderbilt, Georgia State, BYU, Kentucky and Arkansas.


At this point, they were supposed to be clearly better than the also rans of the league and they aren’t. The other obvious thing is to start naming things Tennessee does really well or does at the level they need to. I can’t think of any.


But, the reality is the “home run hire” is a fantasy, not just at Tennessee, but everywhere.

JMO
Click to expand...
I’m always clamoring to come to Volnation to get the perspective of a Gator fan.
 
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#56
#56
99gator said:
The dude who lost to LA-Monroe was in year 1 and went 12-0 the next season with a 4th quarter lead against the eventual national champion in the SEC title game. Then, he won the national title in year 3.

The dude who lost to Georgia Southern got fired.

One of the things that is remarkable about Tennessee is that while I am supposedly a troll (all rival fans are), almost every single season since 2010, Tennessee has fallen below my expectations. Not a sunshine pumping fan's expectations. A rival fan's. One of the few years that wasn't true was last year. I had them 7-5 and they got there in the strangest of ways.

I had them 5-5 this year and most would have said that was way too low. They aren't going 5-5.

I can't even remember a year when Tennessee "beat everyone they were supposed to beat".
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Speaking of, your dude that lost to Ga Southern is facing rumors that he may be out as early as today. Excellent DC but that’s Champ’s ceiling, They are going after Freeze or Napier IMO.

Back to wins/losses, it’s hard to go undefeated in this league even when elite. Meyer never did it in the SEC and the Goat has how many undefeated seasons? One, the season you mentioned, Saban’s only undefeated season as a HC.
 
#58
#58
VolInNW said:
Dont worry. You'll get your wish. We will be directed to be patient and lectured that we have no faith in the program, aren't real fans, yadda yadda, for another 2-3 years of this slop before inevitably it becomes obvious even to the "be patient" sunshine pumpers that it's time for a change.

We will suck even more then.

Enjoy. Fans with the "patience" mantra were telling us the same story with Dooley and Jones.
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Preach.
 
#59
#59
secking said:
Speaking of, your dude that lost to Ga Southern is facing rumors that he may be out as early as today. Excellent DC but that’s Champ’s ceiling, They are going after Freeze or Napier IMO.

Back to wins/losses, it’s hard to go undefeated in this league even when elite. Meyer never did it in the SEC and the Goat has how many undefeated seasons? One, the season you mentioned, Saban’s only undefeated season as a HC.
Click to expand...

Because of the playoff, you don't have to go unbeaten any more.
 
#60
#60
99gator said:
The dude who lost to LA-Monroe was in year 1 and went 12-0 the next season with a 4th quarter lead against the eventual national champion in the SEC title game. Then, he won the national title in year 3.

The dude who lost to Georgia Southern got fired.

One of the things that is remarkable about Tennessee is that while I am supposedly a troll (all rival fans are), almost every single season since 2010, Tennessee has fallen below my expectations. Not a sunshine pumping fan's expectations. A rival fan's. One of the few years that wasn't true was last year. I had them 7-5 and they got there in the strangest of ways.

I had them 5-5 this year and most would have said that was way too low. They aren't going 5-5.

I can't even remember a year when Tennessee "beat everyone they were supposed to beat".
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This a million times. So many always pull out the "Saban lost to LA-Monroe" thing (and forget he beat the snot out of us before that THE SAME SEASON) but never mention the next year they were a quarter from playing for the NC the next season.
 
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#61
#61
All I know is after watching several teams in the SEC this year tells me we may well be the doormat everyone want to schedule. I see better coaches with less talent and resources coaching and playing better than us. If we don’t change what we are doing and who’s doing it its over, especially if Freeze is hired by one of our competitor. 2020 will look like Christmas in two more years if decisive action is not taken. Sorry to be so gloomy, but the truth is upon us.
 
#63
#63
At this point I wish we would have rehired Kiffen. At least the O would be entertaining
 
#64
#64
CA_Vol said:
I’m always clamoring to come to Volnation to get the perspective of a Gator fan.
Click to expand...

Well he certainly seems to live in your head rent free, since you piss and moan every time he posts. If he triggers you so much, maybe put him on ignore? Or you know...don't click on his thread. But nah, how would we see how cool you are when you call him a troll and put him in his place? Only thing missing is you need to add a "gator" in there.
 
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#65
#65
Jaws said:
Regarding home run hires:

Coaching record after 32 games:

- Steve Spurrier - 26-6
- Urban Meyer - 26-6
- Dan Mullen - 26-6

Elite company.
Click to expand...
...and you had to go thru Galen Hall, Ron Zook, Will Muschamp and Jim McElwain to get to them.
 
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#66
#66
VolsSportsFan said:
Well he certainly seems to live in your head rent free, since you piss and moan every time he posts. If he triggers you so much, maybe put him on ignore? Or you know...don't click on his thread. But nah, how would we see how cool you are when you call him a troll and put him in his place? Only thing missing is you need to add a "gator" in there.
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Nah, hes right. Watching this board gargle the balls of any fans of decent programs is annoying as hell.
 
#67
#67
secking said:
LOL None of them started with a 26-6 record as HC, what are you talking about? 2 of the 3 was worse than 26-6 starting at UF as well.
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Nobody does a better job than you at taking the simple and making it laborious.

Won-loss records after their first 32 games as head coach at UF:

Spurrier 26-6
Meyer 26-6
Mullen 26-6

Why would I be talking about their won-loss records at Duke, Miss State or Bowling Green?

Don’t answer. I don’t want to have to explain it again in another post.
 
#70
#70
GAVol said:
No doubt. Just pointing out that it’s hardly ever a clean process to go from one good coach to the next.
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The only program I know of that has won without the slightest hiccup is Ohio State.

They act like Earle Bruce or even John Cooper were disasters.
 
#71
#71
Rocky Top Raby said:
Nah, hes right. Watching this board gargle the balls of any fans of decent programs is annoying as hell.
Click to expand...

Then why do you bother coming here? To be miserable? I'd rather have 10 guys like 99Gator and LittleCat who actually can discuss sports intelligently than some of the Vol fan window lickers we have here who do far more trolling than the "enemy" ever does.
 
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#74
#74
Rickyvol77 said:
Agree but people now a days are too young to remember the rebuilding jobs in the 70s and 80s where Tennessee lost to Army and Rutgers and Virginia etc. The new generations think anything less than a 4 year rebuild is worthy of immediate firing. And what’s worse is they incorrectly assume some “hot” coach who is doing well with weak schedule at a completely different situation would do better.
I remember when people on this board wanted the likes of Fleck, Franklin, Leach, Tubberville, Ferentz, Harbaugh, Kelly, Chizik, Miles, Richt, Fuente, Rodriguez, Cristobal, Hawkins, Brohm, Johnson, Frost, etc and they are all fired or struggling

There is no “dream” coach that would win big here or anywhere else. They are ALL a game of hit and miss.
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You can't come into the the SEC, at a lower tier program(Sorry, but UT is lower tier SEC), and immediately win. It is simply impossible. I think most Vol fans understand this. But, you need to see improvement, development and excitement.
The rebuild of the Major's era was full of those things. It was slow, but noticeable. Major's problem was that he slowly built a Ferrari, and had no idea how to drive it. So he drove it like a grandpa, until the university handed the keys to Fulmer. But, it took Majors 5 years to beat Bama, and reach the next level of respect.
 
#75
#75
Remember when UT ran off Schiano (a proven coach) to get a Saban disciple????

UGA is beginning to see that, like Muschamp & Pruitt, Saban guys can recruit but they have difficulty developing talent.
 
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