The Fate of Humanity Rests In The Calming, Sober Hands of Putin

#253
#253
allvol123 said:
Where did I excuse anything when saying they are moving towards more freedom.
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You've posted six messages about Saudi Arabia since Ras brought the subject up. You've written not a word of criticism against that abominable regime (which persecutes Christians, starves Yemenis, supplied nineteen of the twenty attackers on 9/11, and has underwritten Islamist terrorism and war throughout the Near East and Balkans), but have only praised their (as you see it) increasing freedom and progress (movie theaters and music festivals). Since you wrote the first of those six messages, you've labelled Putin "an abomination" and "evil." I welcome clarification of your position, if it's other than it appears to be.
 
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#254
#254
DuckInAPen said:
You've posted six messages about Saudi Arabia since Ras brought the subject up. You've written not a word of criticism against that abominable regime (which persecutes Christians, starves Yemenis, supplied nineteen of the twenty attackers on 9/11, and has underwritten Islamist terrorism and war throughout the Near East and Balkans), but have only praised their (as you see it) increasing freedom and progress (movie theaters and music festivals). Since you wrote the first of those six messages, you've labelled Putin "an abomination" and "evil." I welcome clarification of your position, if it's other than it appears to be.
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My position is SA is moving towards freedom. Am I incorrect?
 
#261
#261
allvol123 said:
Hmmmm…I’d say if you can’t drive cause you have a vagina, but then all of a sudden you can, that is a fairly large step forward.

Also, China is literally doing a 180 under Xi.
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Until any of them can openly criticize and actually vote to change their government they’re not moving towards freedom.
 
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#262
#262
hog88 said:
Until any of them can openly criticize and actually vote to change their government they’re not moving towards freedom.
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That is utter nonsense. An entire sex literally isn’t allowed to do a normal daily task, now they can.

That is literally moving toward a freer life.
 
#263
#263
allvol123 said:
That is utter nonsense. An entire sex literally isn’t allowed to do a normal daily task, now they can.

That is literally moving toward a freer life.
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Not really. Great their women can drive but none of them have any say in their government or have any defense from it‘s whims. It’s not freedom when you’re still just a subject with no voice.
 
#264
#264
hog88 said:
Not really. Great their women can drive but none of them have any say in their government or have any defense from it‘s whims. It’s not freedom when you’re still just a subject with no voice.
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In our culture when someone gets their driver’s license it is literally remarked about with the adjective “freedom”.

If there are 100 things I disallowed from doing today, but the list drops to 99 tomorrow, then I am freer.
 
#265
#265
allvol123 said:
In our culture when someone gets their driver’s license it is literally remarked about with the adjective “freedom”.

If there are 100 things I disallowed from doing today, but the list drops to 99 tomorrow, then I am freer.
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No, that would be a privilege not freedom since the government can take that away tomorrow and there is nothing you can do about it.

Don’t confuse freedom and privileges.
 
#266
#266
hog88 said:
No, that would be a privilege not freedom since the government can take that away tomorrow and there is nothing you can do about it.

Don’t confuse freedom and privileges.
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Anyone with more power than you can take any and everything from you tomorrow. Thus, by your definition, you’ve never had freedom and never even had the possibility of it.
 
#267
#267
allvol123 said:
Anyone with more power than you can take any and everything from you tomorrow. Thus, by your definition, you’ve never had freedom and never even had the possibility of it.
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Individually you are correct but collectively you‘re wrong. 1 man cannot decide on a whim to strip a whole class of people of a right in the US, and even if the whole of the government decides to we have recourse. The citizens of SA, Russia and China have no such recourse and 1 man can decide what privileges they get. That’s not freedom.
 
#268
#268
hog88 said:
Individually you are correct but collectively you‘re wrong. 1 man cannot decide on a whim to strip a whole class of people of a right in the US, and even if the whole of the government decides to we have recourse. The citizens of SA, Russia and China have no such recourse and 1 man can decide what privileges they get. That’s not freedom.
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To add to the previous, it is not a privilege that I can drive. Anyone can drive that meets the same standards required of me. So I am not experiencing some privilege granted especially to me.

Recourse my ass. We’ve seen the recourse available the last 2 years.

Lastly, this was never some claim that SA is some bastion of freedom, only that they are moving towards a freer society. China is moving the other way, that is a fact. Russia probably is as well.
 
#272
#272
DonjoVol said:
They are still a very restricted society. Let us know when they decide to let a group of Christians build a church and freely practice their religion.
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Where have I stayed they aren’t a restrictive society? You can be in poor shape, start exercising and getting in better shape, yet still be in poor shape.
 
#273
#273
allvol123 said:
Where have I stayed they aren’t a restrictive society? You can be in poor shape, start exercising and getting in better shape, yet still be in poor shape.
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Let us know when they allow freedom of speech and freedom of religion in their country.

Many religions are practiced in Russia. Although, they have been very restrictive or maybe are even trying to ban Jehovah Witnesses.
 
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#274
#274
allvol123 said:
So they are standing still or moving towards a more restricted society?
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You've cited nothing that I believe to be meaningful progress within the context of the grave and intolerable abuses of that regime. It's not the most meaningful freedoms that have been increased, but merely bread and circuses. It's also very strange to me, given the overall tenor of this thread, your challenges to Ras, and the context in which Saudi Arabia was originally brought into this discussion, that your advocacy of Saudi Arabia's so-called progress has yet to be balanced by a single word of criticism of that regime.
 
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