The flex

#26
#26
hatvol96 said:
Give me a quick, physical defense like the ones Huggs put on the floor at UC or Pitt has lately and I'll choke the life out of the flex.
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What offense didn't those defenses choke the life out of? Put better defenders on the floor than their offensive counterparts and the O is going to struggle to score.

The flex is solid in principle. It isn't necessarily what I would try to run if I were building a college program; it isn't sexy, it inverts guards and posts (or causes you to weaken it if you don't,) it doesn't isolate a mismatch, and turning it over might get you into shot clock trouble too often. It definitely isn't what I would try to run with a bunch of guys who think picks are for teeth and patience are the people waiting for the doctor.
 
#29
#29
Vol Mania 21 said:
funny that i've seen pearl continue to run the flex when a team zones. regardless on the baseline i'd keep my 3, 4, 5 guys down low switching the screens and leave my 1,2 guards up top. its that easy
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This should result in a multitude of dunks by the screener.
 
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#33
#33
cotton said:
You can see a lot of silly things if you look enough.
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Haha. Well, actually I guarantee you that the flex is used against the matchup. The flex offense forces the matchup to essentially play man to man by flattening it out. I have seen it done many times.
 
#34
#34
kiffinator13 said:
Haha. Well, actually I guarantee you that the flex is used against the matchup. The flex offense forces the matchup to essentially play man to man by flattening it out. I have seen it done many times.
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Who did it?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#35
#35
kiffinator13 said:
Haha. Well, actually I guarantee you that the flex is used against the matchup. The flex offense forces the matchup to essentially play man to man by flattening it out. I have seen it done many times.
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I don't know what you have seen. I would wonder, though, why someone would go through all of the trouble to set all of those screens on guys who aren't going to be defending the screenee when he gets where he is going.
 
#36
#36
BigPapaVol said:
Who did it?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I have seen it done at the high school level alot. At the college level, no specific game comes immediately to mind. Teams run a matchup that looks like a man to man except they switch on all cutters and render things like a motion offense ineffective. The matchup is designed to look like a man to man but use a combination of man to man and zone principles. To combat this, many teams run the flex because it is a 1-4 set that flattens the matchup out and forces them to basically just play man to man defense.
 
#37
#37
kiffinator13 said:
I have seen it done at the high school level alot. At the college level, no specific game comes immediately to mind. Teams run a matchup that looks like a man to man except they switch on all cutters and render things like a motion offense ineffective. The matchup is designed to look like a man to man but use a combination of man to man and zone principles. To combat this, many teams run the flex because it is a 1-4 set that flattens the matchup out and forces them to basically just play man to man defense.
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The flex is a 2 guard set. Without picking out what I think are some problems with your description of a match-up zone and motion offense, I think we are talking about different things.
 
#38
#38
cotton said:
I don't know what you have seen. I would wonder, though, why someone would go through all of the trouble to set all of those screens on guys who aren't going to be defending the screenee when he gets where he is going.[/QUOTE

Here's why. In a matchup, the defenders match up to particular offensive players. The man I have seen run this the most is Mark Eldridge currently at Maryville High School, who has won a state title there. His matchup zone would render any type of back cuts or ball screens completely useless because they switch on the screens and they switch on the cuts. The only way I have seen people combat it is that they run a 1-4 flex that flattens the matchup out to where they DO have to play the flex cut because being flattened out makes them play man to man defense. So, then the defense has to decide just like in man to man whether to switch on the flex or just have the guy in help position help on the flex. Hope that makes sense.
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#39
#39
cotton said:
The flex is a 2 guard set. Without picking out what I think are some problems with your description of a match-up zone and motion offense, I think we are talking about different things.
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The flex is traditionally run as a 2 guard set. But you can certainly run flex cuts out of a 1-4 set which is what I am referring to.

Edit:
http://www.perfectpractice.net/92/flex-offense-coaching-guide/

Scroll down to where it says the flex starts in a 1-4 set. That is what I'm referring to.
This creates a situation where the coach must decide to either play zone, which renders the flex useless, or play man to man. That is strategically what I am talking about. Since the matchup zone begins first with defenders matching up on offensive players, the 1-4 flex prevents them from using the matchup principles of switching on every cut and disguising the defense. It flattens the matchup into a man to man. Hope this is coherent.
 
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#40
#40
BigPapaVol said:
How. The screens become worthless.
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Like I posted previously. The flex can be run out of a 1-4 low set that forces the matchup into a man to man. When this happens, the screens are not worthless.
 
#41
#41
kiffinator13 said:
Like I posted previously. The flex can be run out of a 1-4 low set that forces the matchup into a man to man. When this happens, the screens are not worthless.
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1. I don't know why you would change your defense because of an offensive set. I thought it worked the other way around. Maybe I was wrong earlier and the flex is magical.

2. You can start the flex out of a 1-4. It becomes a 2-3 after about 2 dribbles.

3. Your point is that it would make the defense change to man. I don't understand why that would happen, but it's good, because the flex is a man offense.
 
#42
#42
cotton said:
1. I don't know why you would change your defense because of an offensive set. I thought it worked the other way around. Maybe I was wrong earlier and the flex is magical.

2. You can start the flex out of a 1-4. It becomes a 2-3 after about 2 dribbles.

3. Your point is that it would make the defense change to man. I don't understand why that would happen, but it's good, because the flex is a man offense.
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If I had a board, I could draw it up and show you what I'm talking about. It's very difficult for me to explain it without drawing it up.
 
#43
#43
The Flex can be ran against the zone if the offense is really disciplined. The offense needs to set the picks on the people in the zone instead of like a man to man where they set the pick for the other offensive man. If ran correctly it can work. it just takes a lot more discipline and concentration.
 
#44
#44
I'm not gonna say it's not been done before. But I will say I think it is ridiculous to try to run a flex against a match up zone. The Flex is constant cutting and position exchange. For example the guard down screens on a forward and the forward is now at the top of the key. When you are running a flex the last thing you want to see is a match up or a man to man where they are switching all screens. The only advantage you could get out of running a flex against a match up is mismatches. The cutter will be open maybe 1 out of 10 times due to a bad switch or a slower defender.
 
#45
#45
vols for life said:
The Flex can be ran against the zone if the offense is really disciplined. The offense needs to set the picks on the people in the zone instead of like a man to man where they set the pick for the other offensive man. If ran correctly it can work. it just takes a lot more discipline and concentration.
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:crazy: uhhh no..
 
#46
#46
vols for life said:
The Flex can be ran against the zone if the offense is really disciplined. The offense needs to set the picks on the people in the zone instead of like a man to man where they set the pick for the other offensive man. If ran correctly it can work. it just takes a lot more discipline and concentration.
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It could possibly work. For example if you were screening the middle man in a 2-3 on the flex cut and got quick ball reversals, the flex cut might be open. Having said that, it is certainly not the most effective zone offense by any stretch of the imagination.
 
#47
#47
vols for life said:
The Flex can be ran against the zone if the offense is really disciplined. The offense needs to set the picks on the people in the zone instead of like a man to man where they set the pick for the other offensive man. If ran correctly it can work. it just takes a lot more discipline and concentration.
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you can do allot of things with discipline and concentration..Hell the vols could even shoot hook shots on their free throws this year and they might even make 3 out of 10. BUT THAT WOULD BE STUPID. The same goes for the flex against a zone. Yea we might score every 2 or three possessions but you could do that without an offensive set..just reverse the ball. All I'm saying is the flex is not a good option against the zone. Matter o fact its a horrible option.
 
#48
#48
I really don't know how we have had such good seasons running such a terrible offense. Granted, our offense against the zone does not work particularly well. However, we have made it work well enough to have quite a bit of success. We saw so many zones last year simply because we did not have consistent outside shooting, not because of the lack of the flex working.
 
#49
#49
BasketvolsFan said:
I really don't know how we have had such good seasons running such a terrible offense. Granted, our offense against the zone does not work particularly well. However, we have made it work well enough to have quite a bit of success. We saw so many zones last year simply because we did not have consistent outside shooting, not because of the lack of the flex working.
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We have had success despite our half-court offense, not because of it.
 
#50
#50
If you were playing a team with very questionable outside shooting and had an effective zone, what type of defense would you play?
 
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