The Foreign Trade Thread

#1,401
#1,401
Hunerwadel said:
Can you elaborate? The only thing I can find that they won't take is our plastic trash for recycling. They used to do that. And of course they're not going to import anything they cannot sell to their people because they can make it cheaper themselves like furniture, clothing, tools and more.
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They make few quality products domestically, Chinese people are now demanding quality products. They do not have an FDA or qualifying of their domestically produced products. A few years ago hundreds of babies were killed because a company used cheaper materials to save a few bucks on ingredients of powdered baby milk, as an example. Basically anything produced with chemicals is a danger. Soap, toothpaste, deodorant, shampoo, powdered milk, food additives, air freshener, paint more than 1 person can think of. They will allow manufacture of these products in China by US brands but not direct importation. I think many manufacturing markets the people deem dangerous to the public health would be at risk even with high tariffs.
 
#1,402
#1,402
n_huffhines said:
This is absurd, unfounded alarmism.
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You mean you are for free trade? Just drop all the tariffs and see what happens? Obviously you have never manufactured anything or invested in anything. No one would risk huge investments in manufacturing facilities without a structured marketplace. It would be total chaos. Crap shoot. It's a great idea but like Communism and Socialism, looks good an paper.
 
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#1,403
#1,403
IPleadInsanity said:
They make few quality products domestically, Chinese people are now demanding quality products. They do not have an FDA or qualifying of their domestically produced products. A few years ago hundreds of babies were killed because a company used cheaper materials to save a few bucks on ingredients of powdered baby milk, as an example. Basically anything produced with chemicals is a danger. Soap, toothpaste, deodorant, shampoo, powdered milk, food additives, air freshener, paint more than 1 person can think of. They will allow manufacture of these products in China by US brands but not direct importation. I think many manufacturing markets the people deem dangerous to the public health would be at risk even with high tariffs.
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I get what you are saying but I just cannot find where China specifically bans the importation of any of those goods. If that is the case Trump should be demanding that China open up those markets to US goods. It would create jobs here and increase sales for numerous US manufacturers. Balancing trade would make more sense than imposing tariffs.
 
#1,409
#1,409
Hunerwadel said:
I get what you are saying but I just cannot find where China specifically bans the importation of any of those goods. If that is the case Trump should be demanding that China open up those markets to US goods. It would create jobs here and increase sales for numerous US manufacturers. Balancing trade would make more sense than imposing tariffs.
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Exactly, that is the anticipated result. We open our markets you open yours. Still, tariffs will be in place on both sides not talking about free trade just open equal trade.
 
#1,410
#1,410
IPleadInsanity said:
Exactly, that is the anticipated result. We open our markets you open yours. Still, tariffs will be in place on both sides not talking about free trade just open equal trade.
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Exactly what US manufactured product is the average Chinese consumer going to buy? Why does everybody assume that because there are a lot of Chinese that there is a real market for foreign goods ... not talking about imported components to be exported as a part of a "made in China" item.
 
#1,411
#1,411
AM64 said:
Exactly what US manufactured product is the average Chinese consumer going to buy? Why does everybody assume that because there are a lot of Chinese that there is a real market for foreign goods ... not talking about imported components to be exported as a part of a "made in China" item.
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Covered that earlier.
 
#1,412
#1,412
Just imagine what would happen if we devalued our currency like China has done to counteract our tariffs?
China doesn't play fair in anything they do. The best thing for the western world is to stiff China and restart our own manufacturing and start moving factories from China to other places in the world, like maybe Central America.
 
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#1,413
#1,413
IPleadInsanity said:
You mean you are for free trade? Just drop all the tariffs and see what happens? Obviously you have never manufactured anything or invested in anything. No one would risk huge investments in manufacturing facilities without a structured marketplace. It would be total chaos. Crap shoot. It's a great idea but like Communism and Socialism, looks good an paper.
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You just compared free market/trade to communism and surmised that nobody would invest in manufacturing if input goods were cheaper. Makes no sense on either count. Also, completely free trade isn't the only alternative to trade war. I'd gladly accept freer trade.
 
#1,415
#1,415
n_huffhines said:
You just compared free market/trade to communism and surmised that nobody would invest in manufacturing if input goods were cheaper. Makes no sense on either count. Also, completely free trade isn't the only alternative to trade war. I'd gladly accept freer trade.
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Free trade would be total chaos from every angle, only an idealist would even suggest it as a solution. Free-er trade is what Trump is after but first, fairer trade.
 
#1,416
#1,416
IPleadInsanity said:
Free trade would be total chaos from every angle, only an idealist would even suggest it as a solution. Free-er trade is what Trump is after but first, fairer trade.
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Saying it would be chaos does not make it so. What are you basing this on? Would it disrupt the market? Yes, because it would be a big change, but it would prove to be a big boon in the long run. I guess most economists are idealists...
 
#1,417
#1,417
Velo Vol said:
Are they devauling it? Or is it falling because their economy is slowing down?
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The yuan is not a marketable currency. Go to your broker and try to purchase some. The Communist Party controls the value simply by posting the new value. Is it really a currency in this case? I don't know of any other major currency that is even similar.
 
#1,418
#1,418
n_huffhines said:
Saying it would be chaos does not make it so. What are you basing this on? Would it disrupt the market? Yes, because it would be a big change, but it would prove to be a big boon in the long run. I guess most economists are idealists...
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Obviously all the businesses hiding behind tariffs around the would go out of business immediately and countries with low labor rates would dominate the markets up to the supply and demand threshold. There is no way anyone could predict the financial outcome but it would not be pretty for a long time. Maybe could be done slowly over a long period of time but the WTO tried it and failed.
 
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#1,419
#1,419
Velo Vol said:
Are they devauling it? Or is it falling because their economy is slowing down?
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China devalued the Yuan when Trump first added the tariffs to lessen the blow. That's the thing about China, they don't have any rules, they do what is best for them.
 
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#1,420
#1,420
IPleadInsanity said:
Obviously all the businesses hiding behind tariffs around the would go out of business immediately and countries with low labor rates would dominate the markets up to the supply and demand threshold. There is no way anyone could predict the financial outcome but it would not be pretty for a long time. Maybe could be done slowly over a long period of time but the WTO tried it and failed.
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WTO tried what and failed?

Who cares if businesses fail because they aren't good enough? That's what makes markets work so well. It's survival of the fittest and the best ideas/offerings win. Government sucks because when it's not good enough, there is no failure mechanism to keep them in check. Stop making business more like government.

Businesses come and go and that's a great thing. Artificially propping them up is not.
 
#1,421
#1,421
n_huffhines said:
WTO tried what and failed?

Who cares if businesses fail because they aren't good enough? That's what makes markets work so well. It's survival of the fittest and the best ideas/offerings win. Government sucks because when it's not good enough, there is no failure mechanism to keep them in check. Stop making business more like government.

Businesses come and go and that's a great thing. Artificially propping them up is not.
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WTO tried to create fair markets by controlling those tariffs each country maintains. Idea being fairer trade. Not a total failure but it was close. I agree government involvement is always negative but this has been a political tool government has played with and abused so long I don't see it being changed due to greed factor.
 
#1,422
#1,422
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

For the time being, China seems to be exercising restraint after Trump threatened to impose more tariffs on $300 billion of Chinese imports this week, and keeping the yuan from depreciating even faster. Brooks estimates that fair value for the yuan is close to 7.3 per dollar, versus 6.93 now.

And while the PBOC has routinely stepped in to support the yuan whenever it inched toward 7 per dollar in the past, there are now signs that stance could change if trade tensions worsen. In a rare interview with Bloomberg News this month, Yi Gang, the PBOC’s governor, signaled a new willingness to let the markets dictate the yuan’s value.

“A little bit of flexibility of renminbi is good for the Chinese economy and for the global economy, because it provides an automatic stabilizer,’’ he said.
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#1,423
#1,423
IPleadInsanity said:
WTO tried to create fair markets by controlling those tariffs each country maintains. Idea being fairer trade. Not a total failure but it was close. I agree government involvement is always negative but this has been a political tool government has played with and abused so long I don't see it being changed due to greed factor.
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Free traders are not suggesting that governing bodies try to organize "fair" markets, whatever the hell that means.

Stop saying socialism doesn't work and then advocating that government control the means of production through trade restrictions. Remove tariffs, and watch the economy boom as the best businesses win.
 
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#1,424
#1,424
n_huffhines said:
Free traders are not suggesting that governing bodies try to organize "fair" markets, whatever the hell that means.

Stop saying socialism doesn't work and then advocating that government control the means of production through trade restrictions. Remove tariffs, and watch the economy boom as the best businesses win.
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I am not for government control or trade restrictions, but after working with them for 40 years I can see that will never change. What politician or dictator is going to go along with the idea of ,"lets throw all the money up in the air and let the best man win"?
 
#1,425
#1,425
IPleadInsanity said:
Obviously all the businesses hiding behind tariffs around the would go out of business immediately and countries with low labor rates would dominate the markets up to the supply and demand threshold. There is no way anyone could predict the financial outcome but it would not be pretty for a long time. Maybe could be done slowly over a long period of time but the WTO tried it and failed.
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Yep, like having the highest valued house in the neighborhood at sales time. Sudden globalization won't work well for the country with the highest wages and standards of living. There's certainly an argument that the backward countries can't produce what the developed countries can, but China is the anomaly there. They conned companies into manufacturing there and then essentially stole (through the duplicity of complicit, greedy globalists) the technology ... the rest is reverse engineering and monkey see, monkey do.
 
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