The Foreign Trade Thread

#1,476
#1,476
Thunder Good-Oil said:
1). We're overdue.

2). Need to start at some point. But I don't think that it will take anywhere close to that time frame to ramp up low tech production in Mexico. Perhaps Trump is taking the long view. Too bad Obama didn't get something started 10 years ago.
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Don't you think if that's what American business wanted they would have started by now? No, they want cheap chinese goods and here you are saying that Obama should have done something like a free trade agreement with Mexico. Trump would just place tariffs on the goods made in mexico as well. And what happened to the premise that tariffs would bring American jobs and manufacturing back? Make Mexico Great Again.
 
#1,477
#1,477
Mick said:
They also agree Tariffs are a bad idea. The United States needs new leadership but you continue to prop up a buffoon.
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Tariffs are effective at pushing back. We hold the best hand with access to our consumer market, free protection of shipping routes, and dollar based transaction enablement. Tariffs are a way to leverage that hand without going so far as to ban countries from doing business here. There will be some short term pain if the targeted cheaters retaliate. Segments of our economy will be hurt so the elected officials representing areas that are impacted will say what they have to to get re-elected. Nations choose retaliatory tariffs hoping to hurt businesses in targeted lawmakers' states and districts. If we cave in the cheating trade "partners" will never change.

I just wish that instead of using tariff revenues as bailouts for impacted industries, they'd be designated for debt reduction. Businesses that have chosen to be dependant on China took a risk. When they are very successful in those dealings they don't donate to the Treasury beyond their minimum tax obligation.
 
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#1,478
#1,478
Mick said:
Don't you think if that's what American business wanted they would have started by now? No, they want cheap chinese goods and here you are saying that Obama should have done something like a free trade agreement with Mexico. Trump would just place tariffs on the goods made in mexico as well. And what happened to the premise that tariffs would bring American jobs and manufacturing back? Make Mexico Great Again.
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No. Obama should have done something about China instead of ignoring them while they cheated and stole.
 
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#1,479
#1,479
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Tariffs are effective at pushing back. We hold the best hand with access to our consumer market, free protection of shipping routes, and dollar based transaction enablement. Tariffs are a way to leverage that hand without going so far as to ban countries from doing business here. There will be some short term pain if the targeted cheaters retaliate. Segments of our economy will be hurt so the elected officials representing areas that are impacted will say what they have to to get re-elected. Nations choose retaliatory tariffs hoping to hurt businesses in targeted lawmakers' states and districts. If we cave in the cheating trade "partners" will never change.

I just wish that instead of using tariff revenues as bailouts for impacted industries, they'd be designated for debt reduction. Businesses that have chosen to be dependant on China took a risk. When they are very successful in those dealings they don't donate to the Treasury beyond their minimum tax obligation.
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I just wish they would have the intended effect on jobs and manufacturing in the sectors the tariffs target. Good response though.
 
#1,481
#1,481
And I don't think that we need to create incentives to do more business in Mexico and points farther south. They'll pick up the slack if we pull back from China. Their labor force is currently bum rushing our southern border.
 
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#1,482
#1,482
Thunder Good-Oil said:
And I don't think that we need to create incentives to do more business in Mexico and points farther south. They'll pick up the slack if we pull back from China. Their labor force is currently bum rushing our southern border.
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What do you propose, instead of detention camps maybe factories?
 
#1,483
#1,483
Mick said:
I just wish they would have the intended effect on jobs and manufacturing in the sectors the tariffs target. Good response though.
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I think that the impact isn't going to be immediate. It takes a while to ramp up certain industries. It was critical to stop China from driving our steel industry out of business. It's strategically critical to support our military... especially our Navy which has 10x the firepower of all other navies in the world combined. That dominance can not be maintained if domestic steel is pushed out of business by China selling below cost. It's great to get cheap steel to build up our infrastructure, but domestic producers need the business to prosper.
 
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#1,484
#1,484
Mick said:
What do you propose, instead of detention camps maybe factories?
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Detention camps? The residents aren't there because we went and imprisoned them. They're rushing across our border faster than we can process them. Maybe if the Dems weren't pushing amnesty for those that can break in then there wouldn't be so many people putting themselves at risk and exploiting children trying to get in ASAP. We actually need immigrants since our population is aging. But wide open borders aren't an option.
 
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#1,485
#1,485
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Detention camps? The residents aren't there because we went and imprisoned them. They're rushing across our border faster than we can process them. Maybe if the Dems weren't pushing amnesty for those that can break in then there wouldn't be so many people putting themselves at risk and exploiting children trying to get in ASAP. We actually need immigrants since our population is aging. But wide open borders aren't an option.
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And a wall isn't a solution but let's stick to trade and jobs.
 
#1,490
#1,490
Mick said:
I wouldn't call having cheap labor cheating or stealing. Maybe Bush or Walmart could have done something
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I wouldn't call Dem backing of unions and minimum wages a smart tactic either ... there are two sides to "cheap" labor, and one of them belongs to countries with policies that lead to expensive labor. The country with the highest labor rates is always going to be the loser when globalism rears its ugly head. I blame both unions and companies equally for our mess ... both for being greedy, and both for working against what's good for the country. In the end a strong market for goods depends on people with money to spend ... something that industrialization and the emergence of a middle class should have taught everybody ... fortunately it takes a long time to kill the goose that lays golden eggs.

Labor costs that mirror productivity are one thing, but increasing labor costs just because or you want to get one up on the Jones are a far different issue. Our unions should always have been just as subject to antitrust laws as the companies they blackmailed ... one side sells products and the other sells labor ... not really a difference except for the product.
 
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#1,491
#1,491
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Detention camps? The residents aren't there because we went and imprisoned them. They're rushing across our border faster than we can process them. Maybe if the Dems weren't pushing amnesty for those that can break in then there wouldn't be so many people putting themselves at risk and exploiting children trying to get in ASAP. We actually need immigrants since our population is aging. But wide open borders aren't an option.
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The labor and aging population is a real issue; however, the other side of the coin on that one is the Dim push toward "higher education". It makes little sense to push kids to dead end non productive educational paths when trades and labor needs bodies ... that gets back to the participation pool and the fake unemployment figures. Kick some people into reality and we might not need - or certainly not need as much - immigrant labor. I don't think we have the luxury to sustain a non working leisure class with nothing better to do than spend the day arguing social issues, philosophy, and government.
 
#1,496
#1,496
Big Gucci Sosa said:
Got to try. This **** with China isn’t going away
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The thing to watch if negotiations with China deteriorate, will be does the US reduce the security of the shipping channels? Trump is crazy enough to say it's no longer our concern. I would hope that any change is orderly since South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, New Zealand/Austrslia, etc. are still our good friends. Ideally, since we run such large budget deficits, the rich countries would start paying significant portions of our military budget. Japan might prefer to ramp up their own navy rather than rent ours though. And SK, NK, China, Russia, and others may not be too happy with that result. With China growing their footprint in this hemisphere, it may not be very smart for the US to abandoned that one.
 
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