The Heisman:

#52
#52
bamawriter said:
Teo is severely overrated.

Johnny Football will win it, and the vote shouldn't be close.
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Severely overrated? Do go on.

Johnny Football should win it so long as the voters decide not to include the LSU performance in their decision process.

Who was the last Heisman winner to turn the ball over three times in one game?
 
#53
#53
KingNick865 said:
Think Manziel's had the better year. 3,500 yards passing on 8.5 yards per attempt and 1,100 yards rushing on 6.42 yards per carry.

Te'o's defensive numbers are good, but they aren't the best.
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101 tackles and seven picks is pretty damn good.
 
#55
#55
heart of a vol said:
This. If Teo wasn't playing for ND, we wouldn't know who he is.
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Really, you do not think you would be aware of a LB with 7 interceptions in one season?

The last time a LB had 7 interceptions in a single season was 2000.

I am on board in saying that Manziel's numbers are impressive; however, I think it is also clear to anyone who watched the game that Manziel performed in an absolutely abysmal manner against LSU, costing A&M the win, a shot at the SEC Championship, and a shot at the National Championship.

You want to award the Heisman to a guy who can have such a black mark on his season, then go ahead (you might have argued that Manning should have won the Heisman in spite of his performance against Florida). I think that being excellent consists in being consistently excellent. It's a virtue and the lack of the virtue in one game shows a lack of the virtue for the season. The Heisman is a season award, and the entire season should be taken into account. This includes the three interception, 1.8 yard per carry performance against LSU.
 
#56
#56
I think you're putting too much weight into the LSU game and too little on his record breaking season
just my opinion
 
#57
#57
VolTx said:
I think you're putting too much weight into the LSU game and too little on his record breaking season
just my opinion
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I agree with you. The man had a record breaking season. Sure he had one bad game but he had many great games.
 
#58
#58
RGIII's team lost 3 games.
Cam Newton had a poor game against Mississippi St.
Mark Ingram was stuffed by Auburn.
Sam Bradford got outplayed by Colt McCoy, and got fewer first place votes than Tim Tebow.
Tebow won the Heisman on a team that lost 4 games.

Very few Heisman winners play perfectly all year.
 
#59
#59
bamawriter said:
RGIII's team lost 3 games.
Cam Newton had a poor game against Mississippi St.
Mark Ingram was stuffed by Auburn.
Sam Bradford got outplayed by Colt McCoy, and got fewer first place votes than Tim Tebow.
Tebow won the Heisman on a team that lost 4 games.

Very few Heisman winners play perfectly all year.
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It is not that he has had to play perfectly, I can grant a less than stellar game (his Florida game, for example). However, having a three interception performance is not simply not playing perfectly. It is performing abysmally.

Cam Newton v. MSU: 2 TDs, 1 INT
Mark Ingram v. Auburn: 30 yards rushing, 0 fumbles
Johnny Football v. LSU: 0 TDs, 3 INT, 27 yards rushing

Newton's bad game, he turned the ball over, but also accounted for two scores. Not an abysmal performance, just less than stellar.

Ingram's bad day, he could not run the ball for **** (but, he did rack up over 70 yards receiving), but he did not turn the ball over. Not an abysmal performance (100 total yards, no turnovers, no TDs), just less than stellar.

Manziel's bad day...no touchdowns, nothing doing on the ground, and three turnovers. That is not simply less than stellar.

If you think these bad days are comparable, then continue to push for Manziel to win the Heisman because he put up decent numbers against Bama (in a game that McCarron handed to A&M) and electrifying numbers against La. Tech and Mizzou.
 
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#60
#60
bamawriter said:
RGIII's team lost 3 games.
Cam Newton had a poor game against Mississippi St.
Mark Ingram was stuffed by Auburn.
Sam Bradford got outplayed by Colt McCoy, and got fewer first place votes than Tim Tebow.
Tebow won the Heisman on a team that lost 4 games.

Very few Heisman winners play perfectly all year.
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THANK YOU,SIR! YOU SAVED ME TIME! EXACTLY WHAT I WAS GOING TO POST! REMEMBER BILL DUFF STUFFING EDDIE@GOAL LINE IN 95? I know that has no relevance to Heisman voting,but it`s obvious that Heisman winners have bad games as well. Johnny Football has been amazing in 10 games AS A REDSHIRT FRESHMAN! TEBOW WON HIS SOPHMORE YEAR AFTER LOSING TO AUBURN AT HOME,@LSU,&UGa! If they give it to a Yankee defensive player again over the BEST PLAYER IN THE NATION(i.e. Manning-Woodson debacle97)AGAIN, I will NEVER pay attention to Heisman voting again.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#61
#61
Teo is who I think deserves it (best player in the country). Manziel has a very good shot to win it.
 
#62
#62
Webbvol32 said:
THANK YOU,SIR! YOU SAVED ME TIME! EXACTLY WHAT I WAS GOING TO POST! AS A REDSHIRT FRESHMAN! TEBOW WON HIS SOPHMORE YEAR AFTER LOSING TO AUBURN AT HOME,@LSU,&UGa!
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Tebow v. Auburn: 2 TDs, 1 INT
Tebow v. LSU: 3 TDs, 1 INT
Tebow v. UGA: 3 TDs, 0 INT
Tebow v. Michigan (post-Heisman vote): 4 TDs, 0 INT

Manziel v. LSU: 0 TDs, 3 INT

Those are comparable performances?

Webbvol32 said:
If they give it to a Yankee defensive player again over the BEST PLAYER IN THE NATION(i.e. Manning-Woodson debacle97)AGAIN, I will NEVER pay attention to Heisman voting again.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Good to know that you are coming at this from the most objective standpoint available.
 
#63
#63
And, for those that brought up the Bradford game against Texas:

28 for 39, 387 yards, 5 TDs, 2 INTs.

Are we really comparing the bad nights from these former Heisman winners to Manziel's bad night and saying that it's a wash?
 
#66
#66
volfanngaytorland said:
Teo is who I think deserves it (best player in the country). Manziel has a very good shot to win it.
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1) Teo
2) Miller
3) Klein
4) Manziel
3 and 4 could switch. I just can't see the voters giving it to a (RS) Fr. I believe the tragedies that Teo has endured during the season will help him out in voting.
 
#68
#68
TXA&M07 said:
Trut = Skip Bayless

That's about all I've gathered from this.
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That, and the fact that Manziel's off-night was absolutely abysmal and that previous Heisman winners' off-nights were not.

Hell, RGIII put of the following numbers in his losses:

v. KSU: 23-31, 346, 5 TDs, 1 INT
v. aTm: 28-40, 430, 3 TDs, 1 INT
v. OSU: 33-50, 425, 2 TDs, 2 INTs

Manziel v. LSU: 0 TDs, 3 INTs.

I do not understand how anyone can view that performance as anything but abysmal. Performances like that ought to lose someone the Heisman.
 
#70
#70
therealUT said:
You feel this way, yet you think Manziel ought to win the Heisman?
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Yes...stop acting like you don't know how the Heisman works. Clowney will win the Hendricks Award and Teo will get the Butkus.

If there's some Woodson-like groundswell of support resulting in Teo winning the Heisman, so be it. But if I had a vote, Manziel would get it.
 
#71
#71
Lawrence Wright said:
Yes...stop acting like you don't know how the Heisman works. Clowney will win the Hendricks Award and Teo will get the Butkus.

If there's some Woodson-like groundswell of support resulting in Teo winning the Heisman, so be it. But if I had a vote, Manziel would get it.
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Unfortunately, I know how the Heisman has historically worked. That does not mean that it ought to go to the offensive player who puts up the most impressive stats over the most outstanding player in college football throughout the course of the given season.

If you think Clowney is that player, then if you were given a vote (which, technically you are, though it accounts for very little) why would you vote for Manziel?

I think that Teo has demonstrated that he was the most outstanding player over the course of the season. I think that Manziel demonstrated that he was outstanding in most of his games, but not over the entire course of the season.
 
#73
#73
I wonder if Teo had any games this season where he screwed up on 3 plays, since linebacker screw ups are obviously not as visible as an INT
 
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