The Jarrett Guarantano debate thread...

#27
#27
VOLnMiami said:
Ehh, When your throwing screen passes 95% of the time you tend to have a higher completion rating
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chargervol said:
PERFORMANCE VS PRODUCTION
We aren’t grading players based on the yardage they rack up or the stats they collect. Statistics can be indicative of performance but don’t tell the whole story and can often lie badly. Quarterbacks can throw the ball straight to defenders but if the ball is dropped, you won't see it on the stat sheet
Conversely, they can dump the ball off on a sequence of screen passes and end up with a gaudy looking stat line if those skill position players do enough work after the catch.

PFF grades the play, not its result, so the quarterback that throws the ball to defenders will be downgraded whether the defender catches the ball to notch the interception on the stat sheet or not. No amount of broken tackles and yards after the catch from a bubble screen will earn a quarterback a better grade, even though his passing stats may be getting padded.
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Wrong like usual Miami.
 
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#28
#28
Objective people see the truth. He did well with what he had to work with. All he needs is more attempts. That depends on better blocking and wr play though.
 
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#29
#29
Last edited:
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#31
#31
My takeaway.
Both sides are giving an extreme reaction, given the circumstances. (Hard to believe, I know)
The system used plays perfectly into JG's strengths, not throwing to defenders etc.. Meaning it's not crazy or absurd he would grade out 2nd under this system.

It also doesn't grade in the areas that posters here complain JG needs the most work - reading the defense, stepping up in the pocket etc..

Looking at the areas they scored, I don't find the 2nd place results absurd or surprising.
Also, looking at the areas they didn't use, I don't see it as a debate ender or even much of a factor.
 
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#34
#34
GAVol said:
Congrats on being able to post a GIF. It has nothing to do with what I posted.
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Behr said:
You are so bad at this I'm beginning to think maybe I was wrong about you. Lol.
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Ok JG fan boy.

Maybe you will wake up and realize that check downs and failed drives aren't the way to win football games.
 
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#38
#38
GAVol said:
Lol... Go troll somewhere else with your alter.
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th
 
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#41
#41
chargervol said:
My takeaway.
Both sides are giving an extreme reaction, given the circumstances. (Hard to believe, I know)
The system used plays perfectly into JG's strengths, not throwing to defenders etc.. Meaning it's not crazy or absurd he would grade out 2nd under this system.

It also doesn't grade in the areas that posters here complain JG needs the most work - reading the defense, stepping up in the pocket etc..

Looking at the areas they scored, I don't find the 2nd place results absurd or surprising.
Also, looking at the areas they didn't use, I don't see it as a debate ender or even much of a factor.
Click to expand...
The grade takes all of that into account. Reading the defense etc.

Also reading the defense is a known strength as evidenced by the low turnover numbers.
 
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#42
#42
k-town_king said:
The grade takes all of that into account. Reading the defense etc.

Also reading the defense is a known strength as evidenced by the low turnover numbers.
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I brought the flippin' criteria over to start with, they explicitly explain grading of the pass. Why do this?
Can't you just take the praise they gave without...

Forget it. Please just quote and bold the part where they mention "recognizing a blitz or defensive scheme"

PERFORMANCE VS PRODUCTION
Click to expand...
We aren’t grading players based on the yardage they rack up or the stats they collect. Statistics can be indicative of performance but don’t tell the whole story and can often lie badly. Quarterbacks can throw the ball straight to defenders but if the ball is dropped, you won't see it on the stat sheet
Conversely, they can dump the ball off on a sequence of screen passes and end up with a gaudy looking stat line if those skill position players do enough work after the catch.

PFF grades the play, not its result, so the quarterback that throws the ball to defenders will be downgraded whether the defender catches the ball to notch the interception on the stat sheet or not. No amount of broken tackles and yards after the catch from a bubble screen will earn a quarterback a better grade, even though his passing stats may be getting padded.
Click to expand...
 
#43
#43
chargervol said:
I brought the flippin' criteria over to start with, they explicitly explain grading of the pass. Why do this?
Can't you just take the praise they gave without...

Forget it. Please just quote and bold the part where they mention "recognizing a blitz or defensive scheme"

Click to expand...
He would have bad throws subtracting points if he made bad reads. It states that the correct decision regardless of the outcome is what is graded. He is making the correct decision. Therefore making good reads.
 
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#44
#44
k-town_king said:
He would have bad throws subtracting points if he made bad reads. It states that the correct decision regardless of the outcome is what is graded. He is making the correct decision. Therefore making good reads.
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On the throw. Pre snap defensive scheme recognition was not included.
You're adding the K-town "want it to" interpretation. Just take the actual praise and let it be.
Or don't. Hell, it doesn't matter. He has strengths and weaknesses just reality. And no one here is thinking..

"hey, I want a full and completely unbiased take on JG. Think I'll read a K-town or FLvol_79 post."
 
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#45
#45
GAVol said:
He's the QB. He gets too much credit and too much blame. Just the way it is.

The "fanboy" and "hater" thing is just dumb.
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Totally agree nobody hates our players, it's a stupid and wrong analogy. I don't think there are many fanboy's either. Bottom line is improvement is needed by all, nobody's game is beyond improvement. GBO!
 
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#48
#48
chargervol said:
On the throw. Pre snap defensive scheme recognition was not included.
You're adding the K-town "want it to" interpretation. Just take the actual praise and let it be.
Or don't. Hell, it doesn't matter. He has strengths and weaknesses just reality. And no one here is thinking..

"hey, I want a full and completely unbiased take on JG. Think I'll read a K-town or FLvol_79 post."
Click to expand...
He didn't make the presnap reads for the line last year. If you mean the coverage he did great as evidenced by the results and grade.
 
#49
#49
GAVol said:
It's funny how there can't be any in between.
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Those of us who defend JG are the “in between”.....when we say “yeah, he ain’t great, still needs to improve but he doesn’t stink like some say he does and here’s the objective, empirical data that supports that idea”....of course, it falls on deaf ears or the data is actually mocked. It’s really bizarre.

Peyton as a freshman, Tee for the majority of his junior and senior seasons, Clausen, Crompton, Ainge, Worley, Dobbs for the majority of his career and now JG.....tough being the QB at Tennessee, you’re gonna get a ton of irrational, over the top criticism no matter what.
 
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#50
#50
Yeah but where do they rate our OL? Guarantano may be considered second best, but he wont perform that way with a crap OL will he?
 
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