The joke that is American politics

[IPorange]

i'd love to see a statistic that proves that gays have significantly higher medical bills. probably true 20 years ago, but today? particurally if you factor in paying for healthcare for the straight mens wifes and kids. we are still generally talking about young, in shape, men. chances are their non combat healthcare cost is less than the general population.

How about the contribution gays have to property rates and the economy? Gayborhoods are good places to own property, in any city.

 

[NEO]

How about the contribution gays have to property rates and the economy? Gayborhoods are good places to own property, in any city.

Gayborhoods? Did you make that up?

I would say gayborhoods ( I can't believe I'm using your word) do appear safer than low income Minorityhoods but not any safer than CurrentlyLegallyEmployedHoods.

 

[droski]

I would agree that if someone is going to be homophobic they probably think homosexuality is a sin but I don't think you are both just because you are one or the other.

i guess i just don't see why one would care so much about the sin if they weren't homophobic. and yes i've heard the "if you knew someone was going to hell and didn't tell them isn't that a sin?" argument.

How about the contribution gays have to property rates and the economy? Gayborhoods are good places to own property, in any city.

the castro certainly wasn't a very nice place to live until the gays moved in.

 

[volinbham]

How about the contribution gays have to property rates and the economy? Gayborhoods are good places to own property, in any city.

I live in the biggest gayborhood of birmingham and it's true here. Lot's of old homes that have been fixed up and well maintained.

 

[NEO]

I believe homosexuality is a sin. It misses the mark. I also believe sex before marrige is a sin. I had sex before I was married. I had alot of sex before I was married. I actually have both gay friends and friends who cheated. Just because I disagree with their decisions doesn't mean I am afraid of them. I have even went to a couple of gay clubs with them when I was in Columbus and hung out. First time I ever saw white guys who were actually able to dance. I was impressed.

 

[sjt18]

i'd love to see a statistic that proves that gays have significantly higher medical bills. probably true 20 years ago, but today? particurally if you factor in paying for healthcare for the straight mens wifes and kids. we are still generally talking about young, in shape, men. chances are their non combat healthcare cost is less than the general population.

There is no doubt about the bias but the references are recent and the quotes seem to be in context: On The Unhealthy Homosexual Lifestyle

Again there is a bias here but the facts seem to be well documented and not stretched: The Health Risks of Gay Sex

 

[sjt18]

Stats show that sjt is rabidly homophobic.
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No. I'm not. I simply care enough to tell the truth. I get absolutely no pleasure from pointing out the pain and suffering homosexual behavior causes them or the people who truly love them.

I grew up with a cousin. His mom kept him, his sister, my brother, and me while my mom worked. As a college student at UNC he "discovered" he was born homosexual. His grades suffered as he traveled often to protest. His dad gave him an ultimatum so he quit school and joined the navy during the late 80's. He and about 4 or 5 "friends" contracted HIV. The others died horrible deaths almost immediately. My cousin lived for over 10 years but was never truly healthy again. (He drew SSI as fully disabled and had his medical bills paid for by VA).

He died at 44.

Because some warped liberal moron "liberated" him... a guy whose health and athleticism was once the envy of us all is in an early grave.

 

[VOLatile]

Truth that homosexuality is a sin or that it's always detrimental to their health and life? I see absolutely no truth in that. Not everyone dictates their life based on the Bible. I most certainly don't.

Most of the time they are happy and healthy. They have just as much chance to get an STD as you or I, if they don't practice safe sex. The problem is that they often don't practice safe sex and/or are promiscuous. That's a personal choice. These "stats" that they are more likely to get AIDS are nonsense.

100% of the time I know who I'm sleeping with and always use a condom. Every one of my gay friends do the same. They've all graduated college or are in college. They're all advocates for gay rights and travel to protest.
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[sjt18]

they do seem to go hand in hand and i'm no religion hater either.

No droski, they don't. Sometimes "no" or "that's wrong" are the most loving things you can say.

If I don't think someone should step off the curb in front of a bus does that make me a pedestriaphobe?

If I say that co-habitation increases the likelihood of divorce should a marriage occur, domestic abuse, and the likelihood that a child in the home will be either sexually or physically abused does that make me a heterophobe?

I don't "hate" or "fear" homosexuals. I disagree with the morality of what they do AND despise the self-destruction they engage in. Immorality and self-destruction btw DO have a tendency to go hand in hand.

 

[sjt18]

Truth that homosexuality is a sin or that it's always detrimental to their health and life? I see absolutely no truth in that.

Enter the straw man argument. Statistically, homosexual men open themselves up to a much higher incidence of very, very severe diseases and health problems. That is simply "truth" whether you choose to see it or not.

Not everyone dictates their life based on the Bible. I most certainly don't.

Your loss.

Most of the time they are happy and healthy. They have just as much chance to get an STD as you or I, if they don't practice safe sex.

Read the links. This is simply not true AND they are more likely to disdain "safe sex".

The problem is that they often don't practice safe sex and/or are promiscuous. That's a personal choice. These "stats" that they are more likely to get AIDS are nonsense.

Oh my goodness. That is NOTHING but willful ignorance.

Gay, Bi Men 50 Times More Likely to Have HIV
CDC reports hard data at National HIV Prevention Conference

By DYANA BAGBY, Washington Blade
Aug. 28, 2009

ATLANTA — Gay and bisexual men account for half of new HIV infections in the U.S. and have AIDS at a rate more than 50 times greater than other groups, according to Centers for Disease Control & Prevention data presented at the National HIV Prevention Conference this week in Atlanta.

Note the source. Roughly 2% of American men are exclusively homosexual and much fewer the 5% will have had sex with another man within the last year. Homosexuals are FAR more likely to get HIV and other STD's than the general population.

 

[CSVol]

I don't "hate" or "fear" homosexuals. I disagree with the morality of what they do AND despise the self-destruction they engage in. Immorality and self-destruction btw DO have a tendency to go hand in hand.

I'm a newbie and sure I've missed this topic discussed ad nauseam, but I take it you see homosexuality as a choice?

 

[sjt18]

They've all graduated college or are in college. They're all advocates for gay rights and travel to protest.
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Good... then they should have no problems paying for the health consequences of their own choices without burdening the rest of us, right?

If they have money to "advocate" and "travel" then the rest of us should not be saddled with the costs of their moral choices... wouldn't you agree?

 

[sjt18]

I'm a newbie and sure I've missed this topic discussed ad nauseam, but I take it you see homosexuality as a choice?

Homosexual behavior IS a choice. That is an incontrovertible, undeniable fact- just like heterosexual behavior is a choice. Humans do not die if they abstain from sex. There are no demonstrated health risks from abstaining from sex. We are never compelled beyond our control to have sex by anything in us biological or otherwise. It IS a choice.

Do some people have a greater propensity toward homosexuality than others? Maybe. Is it biological? Not that 100's of billions of dollars and about 50 years of research have been able to prove.

I would say it is a spiritual tendency on par with a weakness concerning any other sin. Whatever it is... it is most definitely something that a person can say "no" to and not something demonstrably biological.

 

[NEO]

I haven't read anything from SJT that suggest he is homophobic.

People who are calling him that are reaching.

 

[droski]

I believe homosexuality is a sin. It misses the mark. I also believe sex before marrige is a sin. I had sex before I was married. I had alot of sex before I was married. I actually have both gay friends and friends who cheated. Just because I disagree with their decisions doesn't mean I am afraid of them. I have even went to a couple of gay clubs with them when I was in Columbus and hung out. First time I ever saw white guys who were actually able to dance. I was impressed.

I think you'll.find that those here who think homosexuality is a sin put it on a much higher level sin than sex before mariage. More akin to rape or pediphelia.
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[droski]

Homosexual behavior IS a choice. That is an incontrovertible, undeniable fact- just like heterosexual behavior is a choice. Humans do not die if they abstain from sex. There are no demonstrated health risks from abstaining from sex. We are never compelled beyond our control to have sex by anything in us biological or otherwise. It IS a choice.

Do some people have a greater propensity toward homosexuality than others? Maybe. Is it biological? Not that 100's of billions of dollars and about 50 years of research have been able to prove.

I would say it is a spiritual tendency on par with a weakness concerning any other sin. Whatever it is... it is most definitely something that a person can say "no" to and not something demonstrably biological.

Not trying to be an arse but what's your evidence your cousin was "turned." I very much doubt he would.have discussed his leanings with the family judging by what you have told us.
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[sjt18]

I think you'll.find that those here who think homosexuality is a sin put it on a much higher level sin than sex before mariage. More akin to rape or pediphelia.
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Biblically it is one of the sins called an "abomination"... but to say it is "worse" is similar to saying that dying of thirst is worse than dying of hunger. If it is even a matter of degrees... they are fairly minor degrees.

The difference is that biblically speaking there is a proper context for heterosexual behavior but not homosexual behavior.

 

[droski]

Biblically it is one of the sins called an "abomination"... but to say it is "worse" is similar to saying that dying of thirst is worse than dying of hunger. If it is even a matter of degrees... they are fairly minor degrees.

The difference is that biblically speaking there is a proper context for heterosexual behavior but not homosexual behavior.

Fair.enough, but you.must admit society doesn't see sex before marriage and pedophelia as similar sins.
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[sjt18]

Not trying to be an arse but what's your evidence your cousin was "turned." I very much doubt he would.have discussed his leanings with the family judging by what you have told us.
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The very same evidence that those who claim homosexuality is biological have... an opinion based on a worldview. Except at this point my opinion seems to be less in conflict with the known objective facts.

Again, I do not know if some people are more inclined for some NON-BIOLOGICAL reason to be homosexual. Maybe they are. I do know that my uncle did not handle my cousin very well at times. His two older brothers were football players. He was more athletic than either but wanted to be in band and run track. My uncle drove a wedge between them on an emotional level for this and other reasons.

While there is no proof that biology accounts for homosexual tendencies, several studies have cited an estranged or distant relationship with the father as very common among homosexuals.

 

[sjt18]

Fair.enough, but you.must admit society doesn't see sex before marriage and pedophelia as similar sins.
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From a legal point it shouldn't since pedophilia is not genuinely consentual.

 

[droski]

The very same evidence that those who claim homosexuality is biological have... an opinion based on a worldview. Except at this point my opinion seems to be less in conflict with the known objective facts.

Again, I do not know if some people are more inclined for some NON-BIOLOGICAL reason to be homosexual. Maybe they are. I do know that my uncle did not handle my cousin very well at times. His two older brothers were football players. He was more athletic than either but wanted to be in band and run track. My uncle drove a wedge between them on an emotional level for this and other reasons.

While there is no proof that biology accounts for homosexual tendencies, several studies have cited an estranged or distant relationship with the father as very common among homosexuals.

Bit of a chicken and egg argument. Many times the father is the first yo notice the kid is "different." He may not know outright that he kid is gay just that he isn't like him and that could be the reason for the divide.
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[sjt18]

Bit of a chicken and egg argument. Many times the father is the first yo notice the kid is "different." He may not know outright that he kid is gay just that he isn't like him and that could be the reason for the divide.
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Could be... but after billions of dollars and more than 50 years of concerted effort... there is no evidence that people are born biologically predisposed to homosexuality. That's the real problem with the more liberal take on this issue. The argument that homosexuals deserve some kind of civil rights "protection" because they "can't help the way they are" is simply not supported by science or the plain facts of the matter.

I have no problem with people making their own moral choices so long as they accept responsibility for the consequences.

 

[droski]

Could be... but after billions of dollars and more than 50 years of concerted effort... there is no evidence that people are born biologically predisposed to homosexuality. That's the real problem with the more liberal take on this issue. The argument that homosexuals deserve some kind of civil rights "protection" because they "can't help the way they are" is simply not supported by science or the plain facts of the matter.

I have no problem with people making their own moral choices so long as they accept responsibility for the consequences.

Me thinks they haven't spent billions of dollars on this
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[IPorange]

Me thinks they haven't spent billions of dollars on this
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I don't put much stock in his scientific commentary, at any rate. He's great at arguing, though.

 

[CSVol]

but after billions of dollars and more than 50 years of concerted effort... there is no evidence that people are born biologically predisposed to homosexuality.

I didn't realize a concrete descision had been made either way.