The looming GOP split

[lawgator1]

It's very real.

The Looming GOP Split | Swampland

To me, the news in this article is that Norquist now says that allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire is not a tax increase under the pledge. Even he is trying to give the TPers an out.

Will they take it?

Will Sarah Palin be a third party candidate for POTUS next summer?

Will Boehner be able to reel in Cantor before August 2?

Interesting stuff.

 

[volinbham]

shocked I tell you - shocked

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

Am I the only one that thinks utgibbs may be LG's alter ego?
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[lawgator1]

Don't understand why some of you would not embrace this. Folks decrying RINO's for so long ought to welcome the situation, it would seem.

 

[VOLatile]

Why don't TPers run under the Tea Party, rather than the Republican Party if their views are further right anyways?
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[GAVol]

Why don't TPers run under the Tea Party, rather than the Republican Party if their views are further right anyways?
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the TP has never really been about a 3rd party movement.

 

[MG1968]

did LG really start another thread about the perceived internal struggles of the GOP?

really?

 

[GAVol]

did LG really start another thread about the perceived internal struggles of the GOP?

really?

Apparently it doesn't matter that the same struggle has been going on in the GOP since Barry Goldwater and the party has managed not to blow up yet.

 

[Lexvol]

I'm going to laugh my tail off if the GOP manages to sway some blue dogs on CC&B...not that I'm sold on the legislation.

 

[JayVols]

I'm going to laugh my tail off if the GOP manages to sway some blue dogs on CC&B...not that I'm sold on the legislation.

I just wish that both sides would quit acting beholden to the party and work for the country.
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[sjt18]

Don't understand why some of you would not embrace this. Folks decrying RINO's for so long ought to welcome the situation, it would seem.

I do. I just don't think it will go quite like this. You are thinking split as in grand opportunity for a left wing minority power grab. I think it will be more of a process than an event.

RINO's will find the door when they betray conservatives. The leadership of the GOP WILL become conservative (it isn't now...they're just afraid of the base) as challenges are made first in secure GOP districts and states. The bad part for you here is that 30 states are red. As time goes on and the GOP begins to actually mean the conservative values it mouths... those states' senators will be conservative Reps. Sixty is obviously a significant number.

Over time, the establishment types will either change their stands, retire, or else flip to the Dems where they are more at home. EVENTUALLY, that will bring the "middle" back to where the middle actually is according to issue polls. The Dems will become somewhat more centrist and the GOP will lean more to the right.

I know you are licking your chops... but this probably isn't the good news you think it is.

 

[sjt18]

I just wish that both sides would quit acting beholden to the party and work for the country.
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What do you mean by that Jay? I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to both sides and stipulate that they mean what they say. If so, the GOP thinks it is doing what is best for the country by opposing taxes and supporting a smaller, less intrusive federal gov't. The Dems believe that the economy needs more centralized control through regulation, taxation, and income redistribution through federal programs.

If that is the case then "compromise" means that Dems get to grow gov't but not as fast as they want, right? OR is compromise that the GOP gets to cut gov't but not as fast as it wants? OR.... is compromise actually best served by gridlock and stalemate in which gov't neither grows nor shrinks?

 

[sjt18]

Why don't TPers run under the Tea Party, rather than the Republican Party if their views are further right anyways?
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For the same basic reason right now as the NAACP, NEA, or Sierra Club. There could come a point where the TP gives up on the GOP... but the movement is strong enough and probably patient enough to simply take it over.

 

[JayVols]

What do you mean by that Jay? I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to both sides and stipulate that they mean what they say. If so, the GOP thinks it is doing what is best for the country by opposing taxes and supporting a smaller, less intrusive federal gov't. The Dems believe that the economy needs more centralized control through regulation, taxation, and income redistribution through federal programs.

If that is the case then "compromise" means that Dems get to grow gov't but not as fast as they want, right? OR is compromise that the GOP gets to cut gov't but not as fast as it wants? OR.... is compromise actually best served by gridlock and stalemate in which gov't neither grows nor shrinks?

The only thing either side cares about is re-election. If one side comes out with a plan, 9 times out of 10 the other side will oppose it simply because of who proposed it. We have ultra conservatives and ultra liberals in this country, but the truth is the vast majority of the people fall in between. Our politicians have forgotten how to negotiate in good faith and come to mutually accaeptable solutions. Radicals on both extremes are nothing more than spoiled children that pitch hissy fits when they don't get exactly what they want. They are willing to burn the whole house down rather than negotiate. That's how I see it.
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[sjt18]

The only thing either side cares about is re-election.

Disagree and agree. Some really do care. Even those who don't... reflect the real views of their constituents.

If one side comes out with a plan, 9 times out of 10 the other side will oppose it simply because of who proposed it.

That is sometimes true but not always. I have no doubt that liberals really do oppose CCB because it is contrary to what they believe is best economically and politically. Conservatives really do oppose Obama's "balanced" approach because they believe the problem is spending and that taxes are already too high.

We have ultra conservatives and ultra liberals in this country, but the truth is the vast majority of the people fall in between.

That actually isn't true. Both self identification polls and polls about issues indicate that around 40% of Americans are "conservative", around 20% are liberal, and around 40 % are moderate. Rasmussen's segregation of the political class from the "mainstream". The strength of liberalism is their concentration in positions of public influence... education, media, gov't.

Our politicians have forgotten how to negotiate in good faith and come to mutually accaeptable solutions. Radicals on both extremes are nothing more than spoiled children that pitch hissy fits when they don't get exactly what they want. They are willing to burn the whole house down rather than negotiate. That's how I see it.
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I disagree completely. It is those you term "radical" on both sides that really DO want to do what is best for the country... they just differ on what that is. In one post you complain about the "do anything to get elected" manipulators AND idealists who want to do the right thing.

You can't really have it both ways.

 

[JayVols]

Disagree and agree. Some really do care. Even those who don't... reflect the real views of their constituents. That is sometimes true but not always. I have no doubt that liberals really do oppose CCB because it is contrary to what they believe is best economically and politically. Conservatives really do oppose Obama's "balanced" approach because they believe the problem is spending and that taxes are already too high. That actually isn't true. Both self identification polls and polls about issues indicate that around 40% of Americans are "conservative", around 20% are liberal, and around 40 % are moderate. Rasmussen's segregation of the political class from the "mainstream". The strength of liberalism is their concentration in positions of public influence... education, media, gov't.

I disagree completely. It is those you term "radical" on both sides that really DO want to do what is best for the country... they just differ on what that is. In one post you complain about the "do anything to get elected" manipulators AND idealists who want to do the right thing.

You can't really have it both ways.

Ok. Have a good one.
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[hmanvolfan]

,.,.

 

[VOLatile]

the TP has never really been about a 3rd party movement.

If they really want to make a difference, then they should stop being concerned about what the GOP is doing and start their own separate party. JMO.

 

[MG1968]

If they really want to make a difference, then they should stop being concerned about what the GOP is doing and start their own separate party. JMO.

then they can be further marginalized just like the Libertarian Party.

 

[lawgator1]

then they can be further marginalized just like the Libertarian Party.

They seem to want to be on the margin. Their intransigence is rivaled only by their arrogance. I've no problem with their lobbying for reform, though their claim of being grass roots while simultaneously acting in such a manner as to help only the top 1 pct baffles me.
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[GAVol]

They seem to want to be on the margin. Their intransigence is rivaled only by their arrogance. I've no problem with their lobbying for reform, though their claim of being grass roots while simultaneously acting in such a manner as to help only the top 1 pct baffles me.
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What do you see as arrogant about them any moreso than any other group?

 

[lawgator1]

What do you see as arrogant about them any moreso than any other group?

It's the demeanor of folks like Cantor. The shamelessness of being focused solely on wealth building and preservation for billionaires. I don't get why the supposed Everyman character of the GOP has fallen hook, line, and sinker for their tripe.
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[YorkVol]

If they really want to make a difference, then they should stop being concerned about what the GOP is doing and start their own separate party. JMO.

The problem is states like Pennsylvania. For a 3rd party or independent candidate to get on a ballot in Pa they have to get signatures equal to 2% of the total number of votes for that election. Normally that means you need somewhere around 20,000 signatures on petition for it to be accepted and for your name to be listed on the general election ballot. A Dem or GOP candidate needs 2000. Plus your ballot petition is challengable--one signature can get it invalidated. The odds are stacked against any 3rd party or independent candidates. . .

That is just for the state wide general elections. For primaries you can't get on the primary ballot at all and if you aren't registered in one of the major parties you can't vote in the primary because it is closed. So, your name doesn't begin to be seen until after the primaries meaning any serious 3rd party candidate is normally 6 months behind campaigning against the major party candidates.

 

[MG1968]

It's the demeanor of folks like Cantor. The shamelessness of being focused solely on wealth building and preservation for billionaires. I don't get why the supposed Everyman character of the GOP has fallen hook, line, and sinker for their tripe.
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more MSNBC-style class warfare garbage. If you're going to criticize the TP, at least come up with something legitimate that doesn't sound like a talking point provided to you by George Soros.

 

[NEO]

There is no internal struggle in the context you make it sound LG.

The problem is we have a bunch of people who ran under the republican banner who aren't really republican and we TP's are sick of them playing it down the middle with the big tent idea.

I personally don't give a rat's ass what 70% of the population thinks about taxes because they aren't paying any. It's real easy to talk about raising taxes when your getting a free f'n ride off the backs of us who do pay taxes.

The problem with this country now is that the lazy and under educated have the voting majority and the government knows it and panders to them.