The Masters Tournament

#1,202
#1,202
Orange_Crush said:
I'm not biased. I never said I have better reading comprehension.

But I have said the rule is pretty plain. TW knew the facts that led to the breach of the rule. Period. Would you disagree that he knew the facts that led to the breach of the rule? He's on tape, you know...

I'm done. Better things to do and all.
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Damn dude it's not hard to figure it out. It would've been a 2 shot penalty for an illegal drop if he was informed before his round ended & he signed his card. Since it was determined well after his round along with the new rules it was applied then & his score was changed. Pretty simple.
 
#1,208
#1,208
govols/cc said:
Damn dude it's not hard to figure it out. It would've been a 2 shot penalty for an illegal drop if he was informed before his round ended & he signed his card. Since it was determined well after his round along with the new rules it was applied then & his score was changed. Pretty simple.
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That is a non-factor in the discussion. The rules of golf do not make provision for whether tournament officials have conversations with the player before they sign the card-- nor whether the player knows about the penalty stroke when they sign the card.

In 1987, Stadler finished second in the San Diego Open. At least, he thought he did. It turned out that he’d been a couple of inches up the rulebook page from Johnson.

On the 14th hole, Stadler’s ball landed hard against a tree trunk on muddy ground. In order to take the shot, Stadler needed to get down on his knees. He also had a wardrobe conundrum. He was wearing light coloured pants. So Stadler laid a towel on the ground and kneeled on that.

Wrong. The towel constituted a breach of 13:3, which prohibits a player from “building a stance.” Since Stadler had already signed his day’s scorecard – without noting the two-shot penalty his stance builder should have cost him – he was tossed from the tournament.
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Once again, it was some couch jockey that ratted out Azinger. Though he was only one stroke out of the lead after the second round, Azinger agreed with the ruling and removed himself from competition, since he’d already signed his first day’s card.
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However, Joyce didn’t say anything to Murphy. Two days later, Joyce told Murphy about it. Murphy in turn told officials. Since he’d already handed in an incorrect score card, he was disqualified.
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Golf’s top 5 disqualifications | Toronto Star

The player does not need to know about the penalty stroke for it to be deemed signing an incorrect scorecard. There is no provision for tournament officials to discuss a violation before signing cards.

Again... It is a non-issue in the discussion.

It truly isn't that hard to figure out.

:hi:
 
#1,210
#1,210
Since merely bringing it up didn't solve anything, I refer to the actual definition defined by the USGA of a "referee", aka a rules official:

Referee

A “referee’’ is one who is appointed by the Committee to decide questions of fact and apply the Rules. He must act on any breach of a Rule that he observes or is reported to him.

A referee should not attend the flagstick, stand at or mark the position of the hole, or lift the ball or mark its position.

Exception in match play: Unless a referee is assigned to accompany the players throughout a match, he has no authority to intervene in a match other than in relation to Rule 1-3, 6-7 or 33-7.
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#1,212
#1,212
govols/cc said:
When Dustin Johnson hit of that patch of dirt a couple years ago the official could've stepped in at any moment & reminded him that was a bunker.
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no, he could not. He can't act until a rule is broken or is asked a question. He can't freely act upon any action taken on the golf course.
 
#1,217
#1,217
govols/cc said:
Damn dude it's not hard to figure it out. It would've been a 2 shot penalty for an illegal drop if he was informed before his round ended & he signed his card. Since it was determined well after his round along with the new rules it was applied then & his score was changed. Pretty simple.
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Straight from the R&A:

R&A and USGA announce Score Card Rules revision

A Committee would not be justified under Rule 33-7 in waiving or modifying the disqualification penalty prescribed in Rule 6-6d if the player’s failure to include the penalty stroke(s) was a result of either ignorance of the Rules or of facts that the player could have reasonably discovered prior to signing and returning his score card.

For example, in the following scenarios, the Committee would not be justified in waiving or modifying the disqualification penalty:

· As a player’s ball is in motion, he moves several loose impediments in the area in which the ball will likely come to rest. Unaware that this action is a breach of Rule 23-1, the player fails to include the two-stroke penalty in his score for the hole. As the player was aware of the facts that resulted in his breaching the Rules, he should be disqualified under Rule 6-6d for failing to include the two-stroke penalty under Rule 23-1.

· A player's ball lies in a water hazard. In making his backswing for the stroke, the player is aware that his club touched a branch in the hazard. Not realising at the time that the branch was detached, the player did not include the two-stroke penalty for a breach of Rule 13-4 in his score for the hole. As the player could have reasonably determined the status of the branch prior to signing and returning his score card, the player should be disqualified under Rule 6-6d for failing to include the two-stroke penalty under Rule 13-4. (Revised)

The R&A - R&A and USGA announce new Score Card Rules interpretation
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The Masters officials improperly exercised 33-7. Period. End of discussion.

:hi:
 
#1,220
#1,220
Vols520 said:
It wasn't waived because if ignorance of tiger. It was waived because it was already reviewed and they told him he was ok.
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They told him nothing before he signed the scorecard. There was no conversation. It is a red herring in the discussion.

The rules are plain, and plainly interpreted by the USGA/R&A.

Edit: The interpretation of the rule plainly states that the players ignorance of the rule has no bearing. Just whether he realizes that he actually did the action that broke the rule-- which TW stated in a press conference that he did it on purpose.
 
#1,222
#1,222
Orange_Crush said:
They told him nothing before he signed the scorecard. There was no conversation. It is a red herring in the discussion.

The rules are plain, and plainly interpreted by the USGA/R&A.
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You do realize the USGA was called to ensure the rules were properly applied correct?

So are u implying the USGA applied their own rules incorrectly?
 
#1,224
#1,224
Orange_Crush said:
They told him nothing before he signed the scorecard. There was no conversation. It is a red herring in the discussion.

The rules are plain, and plainly interpreted by the USGA/R&A.
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No they didn't but they discussed it & at that time deemed there was no wrong doing.
 
#1,225
#1,225
Vols520 said:
You do realize the USGA was called to ensure the rules were properly applied correct?

So are u implying the USGA applied their own rules incorrectly?
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No. They did not apply the rule.

I am clearly stating that they endorsed a misapplication after the fact. It is evident, per the explanation of the rule that I just posted, that they are endorsing a misapplication after the fact-- probably in hopes that this cluster will just go away, what with it being The Freaking Masters, and The Freaking Tiger Woods.
 
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