The Morning After - Sober Reflections Week 12

#26
#26
BigBadVol said:
There’s no excuse for losing to Bama at Bama? Ok, you lost any credibility with that statement.
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Sorry you can't get past the fact we whipped their @ss the entire first half and then completely choked the game away. That was a very winnable game and we proved it in the first half. UT lost all credibility with me for choking our season away.
 
#27
#27
volsack said:
The over/under on the win total before the season was 9.5. Not sure how people who saw 8 as the ceiling are negative? I paid my tuition this semester on the under win total
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If the over/under was almost 2 full wins more then a reasonable person would see 8 wins as a floor, not a ceiling.
 
#28
#28
If only we had started out with two easy games this season and eased a freshman quarterback into our program. Unfortunately we did and we didn't...
 
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#30
#30
turbovol said:
Fully agree. Heupel should have known last year what he had in Milton and sought another QB in the portal. But Heup has apparently always overestimated the guy, for starters, and unless he was fully prepared to move on he wasn't going to look for another QB in the portal--and no other talented QB would have come. But he was locked into the guy--he was the successor QB, the QB in waiting, won the bowl game, and it would have been hard to suddenly pull the plug on the Milton experiment. Our passing attack has gone from spectacular to utterly pedestrian in one year.

Even given Milton's issues--and the issues we've had at receiver---I expected more from the offense. Not great, not last year--but better than what we've seen. I thought our play-calling and execution in the first-half of the Alabama game was excellent--very impressive--and I expected more of that this year. But we haven't been able to sustain that level of play at all in other big games. The running game as been good--and some credit should be given to Heup for leaning on it as it has become clear that we have passing-game problems. Even so, our 3rd-down futility yesterday--and in other games---has been shocking. Yesterday we were utterly unable to make a play on offense when we needed to move the chains. Failure to get 4, 5, 6 yards over and over again. Not much creativity. That's been both surprising and disappointing.y
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We have a lot of holes, some of which are caused by injuries and others caused by competing for recruits that are being by Alabama and Georgia etc. They have more than doubled the number of 5 and 4 star players than any other team in the SEC and only challenged by Michigan and Ohio State. We appear to be doing better, but it will take a few years of really good recruiting to be really competitive in the SEC.
 
#31
#31
Heupel over-performed in year 1 and year 2. Year 3 his group has been a middle of the pack SEC team (maybe 7th best) and has under-performed. On road against Kentucky was unfortunately his best win. We did not compete against either Missouri or Georgia. It was how we lost to both, which was most embarrassing. After the loss to Florida, the writing was on the wall. Our ceiling was a 8-win team (still have to beat Vandy which isn't guaranteed). The collapse in the 2nd half against Bama showed this team lacked leadership as that was a winnable game but as soon as events in the 2nd half went against us, we wilted. Too many guys didn't show any fight in them when there was adversity. Coaching decisions, poor play calling, clock management and lack of adjustments of any sort were consistently uninspiring throughout the year.

Heupel was going to stick with Milton and many other senior upperclassman no matter what. Whether it was out of loyalty or if he truly thought they were the best options to win, doesn't really matter at this point. The offense was pedestrian, had few explosive plays, and our secondary progressively got worst as the level of competition improved and couldn't cover or stay within 10 yards of anyone whether we played zone or man coverage. Our rushing attack and defense against the run was good most of the year, with some notable exceptions (Florida and Missouri in particular).

Next year he potentially is going to be playing a very inexperienced group of players across the board, when many of them should have received more playing time this year. With games at Oklahoma, at Georgia and at home against Alabama on the schedule next year, those are likely 3 losses. NC State (in Charlotte), at Arkansas, and at home against Florida, Kentucky and Mississippi State will determine our season. 4 games against UT-C, Kent State, UTEP and Vandy should be wins. At best an 8-win season if we are being honest looking forward. Possibly as few as 6 wins if you consider with minimal depth behind Nico, behind what may be a very inexperienced offensive line, he may not make it for the entire season.
 
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#32
#32
Milton regressed, the defense regressed, injuries were a problem but the players who replaced starters showed very little promise of being future stars. If you aren’t concerned about the next two years and a possible regime change after, you are a very optimistic fan.
 
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#33
#33
Before the season started I expected at least 3 losses (Bama UGA and FL) ) with the possibility of 1-2 more. I did not expect us to lose to Mizzou. Our inability to play even halfway decently against a good team on the road is extremely disappointing
 
#34
#34
ftsandersvol said:
While Missouri is having a flash-in-the-pan type season, I would argue we should not have lost to them too.

Everybody in the country expected Bama to mount a come back in the 2nd half except for our players apparently.
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True. I still can’t believe a couple of our players stated “we thought we had the game won @ the half” during post game interviews. It’s on the rd @ Bama. No game is over at the half.
 
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#35
#35
UTFranklinVol said:
My first thought...Tennessee's 14 game home win streak is over at the hands of Georgia, who is also the last team to beat us at home in 2021.

Jaylen Wright has a nice run to open the game and apparently used up all the gas in Tennessee's offensive tank because the rest of the game was cringe worthy stuff.

On second thought...
1. Apparently the Josh Heupel offense only works with Heisman level players. So much for him being a "system" coach because system coaches can plug anyone in and have success.
2. I'm not even really going to comment much on the game itself. If you want that breakdown please go back and find my post from last week because this week was exactly the same as that.
3. Tennessee made no observable progress throughout the year as many people on this board claim that teams do. I could make a reasonable argument that Tennessee's best performance of the year was week 1. There was no progression, no learning, no getting better as a team leading up to the more difficult games on the schedule.
4. Many people guessed exactly how this year would turn out before the season even began. People had a "floor" or minimum expectation of 4 losses as the absolute worst they could imagine and Tennessee gave them not one ounce more than the minimum (assuming no utter disaster against Vandy).
5. There were ZERO pleasant surprises and zero signature wins this year. We lost all four of the tough games on our schedule and minus the first half of the Bama game we were not even competitive in any of them. Also we beat ZERO ranked opponents.
A quick recap of the games:

Virginia - 3-8 on the year and 10th in the ACC. Pretty much a cupcake in a power 5 disguise.

Austin Peay - cupcake practice squad game

Florida - I'm still utterly convulsing that UT lost this game to a team that won't even make a bowl game and has lost 4 straight. Get this, Florida's 5 wins are as follows: McNeese, Charlotte, Vandy, South Carolina and TENNESSEE! This should have been our first warning that something was BAD WRONG with UT this year. This is not the group of teams we want to be associated with!

UTSA - cupcake practice squad game

USC - Another team that almost certainly will not be bowl eligible

TAMU - just paid the highest sum ever to tell their coach to GTFO. Their schedule looks a lot like UTs. They didn't beat anyone worth mentioning this year.

Bama - the beginning of the second half of the season for which I warned people would be MUCH different than the cakewalk of the first half of the season. Let's just say UT didn't disappoint and did exactly what I thought they would do but in a much more embarrassing way.

UK - honestly I don't know how we won this game. We suck so bad on the road and barely escaped with the win.

Ucon - see Virginia

Missouri and Georgia - yeah I've said enough about these already

6. UT almost did as bad as my worst second half of the year projection. Losing fully half of their games. Apparently I was right that the first half of the year was all smoke and mirrors made up of cupcake teams and lots of home games. I had hoped UT would have used that time to get better and face the tougher teams and really make something of this season.
7. My parting comments are this. UT better pray it starts landing 3 or 4 five * player and 15 four * players every single year because the Heupel offense doesn't work without elite elite talent. My personal believe is Josh Heupel will be Johnny Majors 2.0. He will rebuild the team and give you a surprise signature win every few years but he won't be the coach that gets us to Georgia and Bama level year after year dominance.
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You need a 2nd night's sleep.
 
#36
#36
volsack said:
The over/under on the win total before the season was 9.5. Not sure how people who saw 8 as the ceiling are negative? I paid my tuition this semester on the under win total
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Yeah, I think most Vol fans had 8 as the floor and 10 as the ceiling. Now, some are wanting to rewrite history to keep from having to question Heupel's management of the program this season.
 
#37
#37
I'll tell you what the biggest red flag that this season was going sideways ... that performance v Austin Peay! We got a 3 score lead, but could not get our D off the field and our youngsters in the game. A game that should have been won by 50.

One thing I noticed about Rick Barnes teams starting w the first SEC champ squad (Grant/Adm), is that they routed the early OOC scrub games w smothering D and then O dominance, making them no contest after 1st Q of the game. We didn't just have a run of fumbles, special teams busts, etc ... We were struggling to control APSU. Bad bad sign when you want to beat Bama & UGA later.
 
#38
#38
UTFranklinVol said:
My first thought...Tennessee's 14 game home win streak is over at the hands of Georgia, who is also the last team to beat us at home in 2021.

Jaylen Wright has a nice run to open the game and apparently used up all the gas in Tennessee's offensive tank because the rest of the game was cringe worthy stuff.

On second thought...
1. Apparently the Josh Heupel offense only works with Heisman level players. So much for him being a "system" coach because system coaches can plug anyone in and have success.
2. I'm not even really going to comment much on the game itself. If you want that breakdown please go back and find my post from last week because this week was exactly the same as that.
3. Tennessee made no observable progress throughout the year as many people on this board claim that teams do. I could make a reasonable argument that Tennessee's best performance of the year was week 1. There was no progression, no learning, no getting better as a team leading up to the more difficult games on the schedule.
4. Many people guessed exactly how this year would turn out before the season even began. People had a "floor" or minimum expectation of 4 losses as the absolute worst they could imagine and Tennessee gave them not one ounce more than the minimum (assuming no utter disaster against Vandy).
5. There were ZERO pleasant surprises and zero signature wins this year. We lost all four of the tough games on our schedule and minus the first half of the Bama game we were not even competitive in any of them. Also we beat ZERO ranked opponents.
A quick recap of the games:

Virginia - 3-8 on the year and 10th in the ACC. Pretty much a cupcake in a power 5 disguise.

Austin Peay - cupcake practice squad game

Florida - I'm still utterly convulsing that UT lost this game to a team that won't even make a bowl game and has lost 4 straight. Get this, Florida's 5 wins are as follows: McNeese, Charlotte, Vandy, South Carolina and TENNESSEE! This should have been our first warning that something was BAD WRONG with UT this year. This is not the group of teams we want to be associated with!

UTSA - cupcake practice squad game

USC - Another team that almost certainly will not be bowl eligible

TAMU - just paid the highest sum ever to tell their coach to GTFO. Their schedule looks a lot like UTs. They didn't beat anyone worth mentioning this year.

Bama - the beginning of the second half of the season for which I warned people would be MUCH different than the cakewalk of the first half of the season. Let's just say UT didn't disappoint and did exactly what I thought they would do but in a much more embarrassing way.

UK - honestly I don't know how we won this game. We suck so bad on the road and barely escaped with the win.

Ucon - see Virginia

Missouri and Georgia - yeah I've said enough about these already

6. UT almost did as bad as my worst second half of the year projection. Losing fully half of their games. Apparently I was right that the first half of the year was all smoke and mirrors made up of cupcake teams and lots of home games. I had hoped UT would have used that time to get better and face the tougher teams and really make something of this season.
7. My parting comments are this. UT better pray it starts landing 3 or 4 five * player and 15 four * players every single year because the Heupel offense doesn't work without elite elite talent. My personal believe is Josh Heupel will be Johnny Majors 2.0. He will rebuild the team and give you a surprise signature win every few years but he won't be the coach that gets us to Georgia and Bama level year after year dominance.
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Previous coaches lose 6 with this defensive roster. CJH is a big upgrade.
 
#39
#39
CAVPUT said:
Can't argue with your line of thinking, but there were several folks who saw 8 wins as the ceiling for this team.
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8-4 is what a lot of us expected, but not to the degree of beatdowns we got from the top level. Many including myself thought we had closed the gap some, but for the life of me I can not understand the FL debacle and see how we got pummeled to the degree we did at Missouri.
Clearly, we have a lot of work to do in both the portal and in recruiting, but at the same point, we have to get out of our own way with road woes and undisciplined penalties and blunders at inappropriate times.
Just my take.
 
#40
#40
Heup seems to be pretty stubborn, see Milton, but if he wants to keep the fan base staff changes need to be made end of the season. And not fall into the Fulmer trap of promoting other assistants to coordinators. Get the best you can, UT has the $.
 
#41
#41
Caz said:
8-4 is what a lot of us expected, but not to the degree of beatdowns we got from the top level. Many including myself thought we had closed the gap some, but for the life of me I can not understand the FL debacle and see how we got pummeled to the degree we did at Missouri.
Clearly, we have a lot of work to do in both the portal and in recruiting, but at the same point, we have to get out of our own way with road woes and undisciplined penalties and blunders at inappropriate times.
Just my take.
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I just see this team as being a bit soft and mentally weak. When they hit the road or face a team that's able to pop them in the mouth, they don't respond well. Hate to pick on Milton, but he is the defacto leader on offense, and I watch his antics and just don't see a leader. It's as if he takes nothing seriously. Just a happy go lucky guy. Dancing, smiling and hanging with his buddies. Nothing wrong with that, but in the SEC football wars, you have to be of a different mentality at least on game day. This upperclass group just isn't tough enough or hungry enough. They might want to win, but they don't have the will to win if that make sense. We need a youth movement....badly.
 
#42
#42
CAPTAIN--VOL CAVALRY said:
My Thoughts -- Morning After -- Sober Reflection

Georgia is not just A dominant force in the SEC, they are THE dominant force in the SEC

I honestly believe they could beat (or at the very least compete) with NFL teams like the Cardinals, the Bears, the Panthers, or the Giants this year.

We (UT) are good, not great. The Georgia Bulldogs are great. With two past Nattys under their belts and a third this year very likely the fact that they are one of the all time greats can hardly be debated. 29 wins in a row and counting, you gotta give them props.

Plus, nobody scored in the 4th quarter last night which I thought was pretty amazing.

Just wait'll next year? Ill give you the final word
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Newsflash-------Bama will give uga all they want. Milroe is a stud .
 
#44
#44
One thing I look at that really gives me pause is looking at Milroe’s growth over the course of the season at Bama vs. Milton’s stagnation/regression.

Saban knew Buchner and Simpson were worse than Milroe, but Milroe wasn’t playing well so he was benched. It was as much to teach Milroe a lesson on how fast it can all be taken away as it was a chance for the other two to show out.

After being benched Milroe began getting better week in and week out. He started being a more willing runner and got safer with the ball and that resurrected their offense.

Meanwhile Joe knows he won’t get pulled unless he’s hurt. No level of poor play gets met with any actual consequence, so there’s never any real reason to improve. Other than wins and losses but Joe’s huge smile after every ass whooping tells me losing doesn’t bother him too much.

Heupel not bringing in a QB to compete with Joe was rookie level roster mismanagement. It hamstrung the offense the entire season and costs a ton of seniors the chance at a better final season.
 
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#45
#45
This thread would be more aptly named “The Bitter Mewlings of a Dissatisfied Vols Fan.”
 
#46
#46
UTFranklinVol said:
My first thought...Tennessee's 14 game home win streak is over at the hands of Georgia, who is also the last team to beat us at home in 2021.

Jaylen Wright has a nice run to open the game and apparently used up all the gas in Tennessee's offensive tank because the rest of the game was cringe worthy stuff.

On second thought...
1. Apparently the Josh Heupel offense only works with Heisman level players. So much for him being a "system" coach because system coaches can plug anyone in and have success.
2. I'm not even really going to comment much on the game itself. If you want that breakdown please go back and find my post from last week because this week was exactly the same as that.
3. Tennessee made no observable progress throughout the year as many people on this board claim that teams do. I could make a reasonable argument that Tennessee's best performance of the year was week 1. There was no progression, no learning, no getting better as a team leading up to the more difficult games on the schedule.
4. Many people guessed exactly how this year would turn out before the season even began. People had a "floor" or minimum expectation of 4 losses as the absolute worst they could imagine and Tennessee gave them not one ounce more than the minimum (assuming no utter disaster against Vandy).
5. There were ZERO pleasant surprises and zero signature wins this year. We lost all four of the tough games on our schedule and minus the first half of the Bama game we were not even competitive in any of them. Also we beat ZERO ranked opponents.
A quick recap of the games:

Virginia - 3-8 on the year and 10th in the ACC. Pretty much a cupcake in a power 5 disguise.

Austin Peay - cupcake practice squad game

Florida - I'm still utterly convulsing that UT lost this game to a team that won't even make a bowl game and has lost 4 straight. Get this, Florida's 5 wins are as follows: McNeese, Charlotte, Vandy, South Carolina and TENNESSEE! This should have been our first warning that something was BAD WRONG with UT this year. This is not the group of teams we want to be associated with!

UTSA - cupcake practice squad game

USC - Another team that almost certainly will not be bowl eligible

TAMU - just paid the highest sum ever to tell their coach to GTFO. Their schedule looks a lot like UTs. They didn't beat anyone worth mentioning this year.

Bama - the beginning of the second half of the season for which I warned people would be MUCH different than the cakewalk of the first half of the season. Let's just say UT didn't disappoint and did exactly what I thought they would do but in a much more embarrassing way.

UK - honestly I don't know how we won this game. We suck so bad on the road and barely escaped with the win.

Ucon - see Virginia

Missouri and Georgia - yeah I've said enough about these already

6. UT almost did as bad as my worst second half of the year projection. Losing fully half of their games. Apparently I was right that the first half of the year was all smoke and mirrors made up of cupcake teams and lots of home games. I had hoped UT would have used that time to get better and face the tougher teams and really make something of this season.
7. My parting comments are this. UT better pray it starts landing 3 or 4 five * player and 15 four * players every single year because the Heupel offense doesn't work without elite elite talent. My personal believe is Josh Heupel will be Johnny Majors 2.0. He will rebuild the team and give you a surprise signature win every few years but he won't be the coach that gets us to Georgia and Bama level year after year dominance.
Click to expand...
I think you miss it on no. 7. Tennessee's offense won't work so well without a heady QB, not necessarily elite, but pretty damn good
 
#47
#47
If Heupel wants to stay here long term he needs to change some guys around on his coaching staff... Too much slop, lack of physicality, playcalling and coaching could all be a lot better.
 
#48
#48
UTFranklinVol said:
My first thought...Tennessee's 14 game home win streak is over at the hands of Georgia, who is also the last team to beat us at home in 2021.

Jaylen Wright has a nice run to open the game and apparently used up all the gas in Tennessee's offensive tank because the rest of the game was cringe worthy stuff.

On second thought...
1. Apparently the Josh Heupel offense only works with Heisman level players. So much for him being a "system" coach because system coaches can plug anyone in and have success.
2. I'm not even really going to comment much on the game itself. If you want that breakdown please go back and find my post from last week because this week was exactly the same as that.
3. Tennessee made no observable progress throughout the year as many people on this board claim that teams do. I could make a reasonable argument that Tennessee's best performance of the year was week 1. There was no progression, no learning, no getting better as a team leading up to the more difficult games on the schedule.
4. Many people guessed exactly how this year would turn out before the season even began. People had a "floor" or minimum expectation of 4 losses as the absolute worst they could imagine and Tennessee gave them not one ounce more than the minimum (assuming no utter disaster against Vandy).
5. There were ZERO pleasant surprises and zero signature wins this year. We lost all four of the tough games on our schedule and minus the first half of the Bama game we were not even competitive in any of them. Also we beat ZERO ranked opponents.
A quick recap of the games:

Virginia - 3-8 on the year and 10th in the ACC. Pretty much a cupcake in a power 5 disguise.

Austin Peay - cupcake practice squad game

Florida - I'm still utterly convulsing that UT lost this game to a team that won't even make a bowl game and has lost 4 straight. Get this, Florida's 5 wins are as follows: McNeese, Charlotte, Vandy, South Carolina and TENNESSEE! This should have been our first warning that something was BAD WRONG with UT this year. This is not the group of teams we want to be associated with!

UTSA - cupcake practice squad game

USC - Another team that almost certainly will not be bowl eligible

TAMU - just paid the highest sum ever to tell their coach to GTFO. Their schedule looks a lot like UTs. They didn't beat anyone worth mentioning this year.

Bama - the beginning of the second half of the season for which I warned people would be MUCH different than the cakewalk of the first half of the season. Let's just say UT didn't disappoint and did exactly what I thought they would do but in a much more embarrassing way.

UK - honestly I don't know how we won this game. We suck so bad on the road and barely escaped with the win.

Ucon - see Virginia

Missouri and Georgia - yeah I've said enough about these already

6. UT almost did as bad as my worst second half of the year projection. Losing fully half of their games. Apparently I was right that the first half of the year was all smoke and mirrors made up of cupcake teams and lots of home games. I had hoped UT would have used that time to get better and face the tougher teams and really make something of this season.
7. My parting comments are this. UT better pray it starts landing 3 or 4 five * player and 15 four * players every single year because the Heupel offense doesn't work without elite elite talent. My personal believe is Josh Heupel will be Johnny Majors 2.0. He will rebuild the team and give you a surprise signature win every few years but he won't be the coach that gets us to Georgia and Bama level year after year dominance.
Click to expand...
The silver lining...
8-4 was reasonable to start the year.
This season seems to be the outlier to the Heupel track record. Hopefully it gets back on track with a new QB next year.
Still a great 3 year run as a program. Healthiest we've been in some time.

The doom and gloom...
I can buy not having elite talent. I'm fine with losses to AL and UGA. You got dominated up and down the field by two teams that you shouldn't have though. FL had a terrible off-season, and it's showing on the field. Missouri is having a nice year, but they are coming off .500 seasons for the most part. They dominated you in a Georgia like fashion.
We don't seem to take advantage of what we do have. I think we have a few NFL quality players on the team. Why are we not finding ways to get the ball to Jaylen, Sampson, Warren, and McCastles? They should dominate the touches on the team. Missouri wore us out with their RB and TEs. Florida wore us out with a quick passing game and quick trap running game. A lot of motion. Could we not have ran similar things to success?
We're a very Sr. laden team. Depending on how the off-season goes, it could be a lot of youth and/or new faces playing. Could be a good thing or a bad thing. Schedule lines you up to go 8-4 to 9-3. You need to at least show up in the losses.
We still have a lot of scratch the head moments in games. FG decisions, 4th down calls, clock management, benching players and then playing them in non-essential situations, etc. He's a young coach, but we got to start cleaning these up to take the next step as a program.
 
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