The next big bubble... student loans???

#51
#51
A close pal of mine has a wife who's been in college for about 10 years; she's finishing up her masters degree now in social sciences and plans on being a social worker.

I shudder when try to estimate the amount of debt she's racked up in higher education for a career that's going to net her 45k a year if she's lucky.
 
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#52
#52
The student loan cycle must stop for the sake of our future generations. A college degree is now required for almost any job, other than a trade, for a non-poverty line income. Either the free market has to determine the costs of a college degree or the government. Letting the universities print their own money from the government has not worked and has created the biggest economic problem in our country.

Why don't we make colleges liable for the income generating ability of their graduates? I'm thinking something along the lines of if the graduate can't pay the loan, the university has to give some of that loan money back to the government?
 
#53
#53
volglass said:
The student loan cycle must stop for the sake of our future generations. A college degree is now required for almost any job, other than a trade, for a non-poverty line income. Either the free market has to determine the costs of a college degree or the government. Letting the universities print their own money from the government has not worked and has created the biggest economic problem in our country.

Why don't we make colleges liable for the income generating ability of their graduates? I'm thinking something along the lines of if the graduate can't pay the loan, the university has to give some of that loan money back to the government?
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No, the solution is to remove the guaranteed govt money in the first place. Colleges and universities (with the help of these govt loans) have an inelastic demand for their product. People have convinced kids that you have to get a college degree... any degree, no matter the cost. This is a perfect example of what can happen when govt gets involved in a market. Prices go up and quality decreases.
 
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#54
#54
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, the solution is to remove the guaranteed govt money in the first place. Colleges and universities (with the help of these govt loans) have an inelastic demand for their product. People have convinced kids that you have to get a college degree... any degree, no matter the cost. This is a perfect example of what can happen when govt gets involved in a market. Prices go up and quality decreases.
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Exactly!
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#55
#55
SWIL said:
A close pal of mine has a wife who's been in college for about 10 years; she's finishing up her masters degree now in social sciences and plans on being a social worker.

I shudder when try to estimate the amount of debt she's racked up in higher education for a career that's going to net her 45k a year if she's lucky.
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Friend of mine's wife went to Vandy and is a social worker, they will be paying her debt for decades.
 
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#56
#56
volglass said:
The student loan cycle must stop for the sake of our future generations. A college degree is now required for almost any job, other than a trade, for a non-poverty line income. Either the free market has to determine the costs of a college degree or the government. Letting the universities print their own money from the government has not worked and has created the biggest economic problem in our country.

Why don't we make colleges liable for the income generating ability of their graduates? I'm thinking something along the lines of if the graduate can't pay the loan, the university has to give some of that loan money back to the government?
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You can thank the SCOTUS for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

Prior to this inane ruling corporations actually had management training programs and it was possible for a person to graduate HS and work their way into management. Now the college degree is basically paying your white collar dues.
 
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#57
#57
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, the solution is to remove the guaranteed govt money in the first place. Colleges and universities (with the help of these govt loans) have an inelastic demand for their product. People have convinced kids that you have to get a college degree... any degree, no matter the cost. This is a perfect example of what can happen when govt gets involved in a market. Prices go up and quality decreases.
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I'm not saying that should not be the end game. I agree that guaranteed government money is ALWAYS a problem, in every facet of society. However, I'm more interested in how we get there. I don't think they can immediately pull out money.
 
#58
#58
volglass said:
I'm not saying that should not be the end game. I agree that guaranteed government money is ALWAYS a problem, in every facet of society. However, I'm more interested in how we get there. I don't think they can immediately pull out money.
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The first step would be to stop the government from being the lender and go back to student loans coming from banks.
 
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#59
#59
volinbham said:
The first step would be to stop the government from being the lender and go back to student loans coming from banks.
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I still don't like that idea unless you allow students to settle student debts in bankruptcy. The banks still are not subject to any risk if you allow them to be first in line to be paid. Maybe this will encourage banks to be more selective of who they offer loans to.
 
#61
#61
justvollowing said:
School's could outsource admission decisions to the banks and let them decide who is worthy of a college education. /s

I am with you on the bankruptcy argument. If I died tomorrow my future wife or parents could be stuck with my student loan debt. That's crazy!
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If you buy a car or a house on debt, they can repo those items easily. But when you get into student loan debt, the banks use your labor and soul as the collateral.
 
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#62
#62
hog88 said:
You can thank the SCOTUS for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

Prior to this inane ruling corporations actually had management training programs and it was possible for a person to graduate HS and work their way into management. Now the college degree is basically paying your white collar dues.
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It's not quite THAT cut and dry but it's close.

One can still find white collar work without a 4 year degree in the tech world. But, you better be exceptional at two things:

1. your craft
2. networking your ass off!
 
#63
#63
SWIL said:
It's not quite THAT cut and dry but it's close.

One can still find white collar work without a 4 year degree in the tech world. But, you better be exceptional at two things:

1. your craft
2. networking your ass off!
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Can do it in sales and a few other fields also. But again you have to work your azz off and be better than those with the degree.
 
#64
#64
hog88 said:
Can do it in sales and a few other fields also. But again you have to work your azz off and be better than those with the degree.
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There are points in the corporate chain that not having a degree will leave you in a stale mate. It's kind of up to the individual at that point. Is the 3-4 years for the degree and money spent going to be worth the possible promotion? Also in a sales, care, or any service environment, the closer you are too the customer to safer your position is. Generally speaking.
 
#65
#65
TNsnyper20 said:
There are points in the corporate chain that not having a degree will leave you in a stale mate. It's kind of up to the individual at that point. Is the 3-4 years for the degree and money spent going to be worth the possible promotion? Also in a sales, care, or any service environment, the closer you are too the customer to safer your position is. Generally speaking.
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My brother has hit that ceiling with Pepsi and is now working to finish his degree. They are hiring people off the street and he is expected to train them to be his boss. He worked himself from a truck to some type of sales manager, can't go any higher without the paper.
 
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#66
#66
hog88 said:
My brother has hit that ceiling with Pepsi and is now working to finish his degree. They are hiring people off the street and he is expected to train them to be his boss. He worked himself from a truck to some type of sales manager, can't go any higher without the paper.
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Hopefully Pepsi has some type of education benefit where they will foot a lot of that bill?
 
#68
#68
hog88 said:
I don't think so, he complains about the cost.
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That sucks. Even the company I work for will do a tuition reimbursement if you go back for a certain degree. It's not a full reimbursement but anything helps.

Good luck to your brother. Hope he gets what he's after.
 
#69
#69
Corporate investment in their human resources is an excellent idea and I wish more incentive was given to companies to hire young people, train them, promote them, and help with their education.

As for the argument that student loans should be discharged in bankruptcy, I don't think that is a good idea. All that does is eliminate the burden on the individuals and shift the burden of unpaid student loan debt of our government to the taxpayers. It was the taxpayers who financed all these student loans and, ultimately, taxpayers who will benefit or not benefit from their collection. Hence, the problem with the government getting involved in lending to begin with. The only entities that have the government loan money are the educational institutions.

I believe loans should only originate and be serviced by businesses, with the government only acting as a watchdog for proper lending procedures.
 
#71
#71
I paid back every penny of my student loans, and it never crosses my mind to do otherwise. What the hell is wrong with people?
 
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#74
#74
Rasputin_Vol said:
This is another argument I've made, also. It is very easy for people that had a network of people around them or a family around them to advise them on career paths and what decisions to make in life. Obviously, most of these kids don't have that. I was lucky to have a 2 parent household, but I was the first one to go to college on either side of my family. In retrospect, I got all kinds of bad advice from people I trusted. Most of the info wasn't malicious in nature. They just figured that it cost a lot of money to get a quality education. Now that was my situation. I can only imagine the type of advice these kids today are getting from their elders. Blind leading the blind.
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I think it's actually worse than that - some bordering on the criminal. My parents didn't have college educations either, but they certainly linked the concept of an appropriate education, study, and a meaningful career together for us. Two of us have engineering degrees and retired after successful careers. The other two had business degrees and successful careers.

Too many people, parents included, have bought into the "enlightened" concept that in the future trades would be a dying breed - we've got robotics, so no need to get your hands dirty. Old fashioned farming would be behind us, and so on. The concept is that we somehow would exist on some higher more intellectual plane, but everybody seemed to have amnesia when it came to earnings necessary to live at any level. Government supported college for all (at least high school v2); universities are happy to sell seat time, room and board, etc; lenders are happy to loan the money; but nobody was really talking about whether it all meant anything - was there payback for the investment. Apparently the thought is that you have all the technology you need if you can manage a cell phone and a computer, so nobody wants to think much about the technology - math, science, and specific fields of engineering necessary to make those things happen, or the necessary business and infrastructure to make it all work.

You get the impression that most people under 30 or so think that business is a place (something like kindergarten) where you go and they pay you to spend the days discussing philosophy and all the other worthless intellectual drivel pumped out in liberal arts classes.
 
#75
#75
Roustabout said:
I paid back every penny of my student loans, and it never crosses my mind to do otherwise. What the hell is wrong with people?
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Most people want to pay them back and have every intention of doing so. But, if like, me, you did a consolidation a number of years back and got yourself what was advertised as a great deal on a rate of about 8 % then, it gets kind of irritating that they cannot be refinanced now, when others doing it now are getting in the 2s and 3s.

I'd like to see the next Congress authorize refinancing, just as was done with HARP.
 
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