The Obama Presidency by the Numbers

#26
#26
Muschump said:
Encourage drilling? Where? Seems like a half baked short-term solution at best.

Anything else besides more drilling? Only way to lower the price of a gallon of gas?

Where is this "more drilling" you had in mind? Specifically.
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alaska, east coast, gulf of mexico, west coast, oil shale northwest us......do u not read or just immediately damn everything thats not a,democratic agenda
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#27
#27
BigPapaVol said:
and economical shale production massively increases the supply side, while giving the option of telling OPEC that it can shove its price manipulation up its ass.
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Now we're getting somewhere.

How much does supply actually have to do with the current rise in gas prices?
 
#28
#28
Muschump said:
Now we're getting somewhere.

How much does supply actually have to do with the current rise in gas prices?
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Supply is the main issue, but isn't without massive projections for worldwide demand. I don't know how much of it driven by misinformation and manipulation on the part of OPEC / Saudi. The bottom line is that much of the world believes we are at a very high utilization rate / have very little spare capacity and that any boost in world economies will redline us on oil utilization. It doesn't make any sense to me, since the Saudis regularly force the rest of OPEC into some sort of limitations on production to manipulate the price.

Unfortunately, the market is fluid, but not free.
 
#29
#29
Muschump said:
Now we're getting somewhere.

How much does supply actually have to do with the current rise in gas prices?
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If u wanted a pissing match with opec, then why not say so........hopefully this will go back to w and iraq
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#30
#30
BigPapaVol said:
Supply is the main issue, but isn't without massive projections for worldwide demand. I don't know how much of it driven by misinformation and manipulation on the part of OPEC / Saudi. The bottom line is that much of the world believes we are at a very high utilization rate / have very little spare capacity and that any boost in world economies will redline us on oil utilization. It doesn't make any sense to me, since the Saudis regularly force the rest of OPEC into some sort of limitations on production to manipulate the price.

Unfortunately, the market is fluid, but not free.
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Plus one
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#31
#31
Muschump said:
How long does the largest oil reserve in the world last? If Obama stepped back and let the private companies destroy North America, how long until you saved $.50 on your next gallon of gas? 10 years? 5 years?
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You know nothing about the process, but you assume it will destroy North America?

What I don't get is why people think it's fine to drive a car, necessitating the "ravaging" of some environment, somewhere, but they aren't OK with "ravaging" an environment close to home. It's like, "F*** the world. We're elitists who only pretend like we care about the environment."
 
#32
#32
Oil Sands in Canada is hot button issue right now. People are complaining in Mid West (Nebraska, Dakotas) about Pipeline being laid on their land. Thoughts?
 
#33
#33
KiffinKiller said:
Oil Sands in Canada is hot button issue right now. People are complaining in Mid West (Nebraska, Dakotas) about Pipeline being laid on their land. Thoughts?
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I disagree with eminent domain laws. People should have the choice to share their land. Other than that, I don't have a problem with it.
 
#34
#34
nbakerld said:
You know nothing about the process, but you assume it will destroy North America?

What I don't get is why people think it's fine to drive a car, necessitating the "ravaging" of some environment, somewhere, but they aren't OK with "ravaging" an environment close to home. It's like, "F*** the world. We're elitists who only pretend like we care about the environment."
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plus one bean counter!
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#35
#35
KiffinKiller said:
Oil Sands in Canada is hot button issue right now. People are complaining in Mid West (Nebraska, Dakotas) about Pipeline being laid on their land. Thoughts?
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Doesn't matter. Those people drive cars, therefor their backyards must be destroyed. No other options.
 
#36
#36
nbakerld said:
I disagree with eminent domain laws. People should have the choice to share their land. Other than that, I don't have a problem with it.
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generally agree regarding eminent domain. It should take an act of SCOTUS to enforce eminent domain and it should be expensive as hell.

That said, the hardcore libertarian in you must hate that we even have laws that dictate land being owned, no?
 
#37
#37
Muschump said:
Doesn't matter. Those people drive cars, therefor their backyards must be destroyed. No other options.
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Yeah. If you take a point to a ridiculous extreme, you can make even the most logical arguments sound absurd.
 
#39
#39
BigPapaVol said:
generally agree regarding eminent domain. It should take an act of SCOTUS to enforce eminent domain and it should be expensive as hell.

That said, the hardcore libertarian in you must hate that we even have laws that dictate land being owned, no?
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No. If we are to have government, its one role should be to protect life, liberty, and property.
 
#40
#40
nbakerld said:
No. If we are to have government, its one role should be to protect life, liberty, and property.
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Did someone just decide on some random ideas there and you agreed?

How about life, liberty and air? Maybe corn, weed and chili? Football, apple pie and shotguns?
 
#41
#41
VolsNSkinsFan said:
you know nothing about laying a pipeline
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Do you? Got a lot of pipeline running through tha A?

I know people that are having it done in their backyard aren't happy with it. That goes further with me than what you read on an internet blog.
 
#44
#44
If we were really serious about turning this economy around we would invest in oil & gas industry. It employees a lot of people and is sure to turn a profit. Decrease regulations and drill in our own country.
 
#45
#45
BigPapaVol said:
Did someone just decide on some random ideas there and you agreed?

How about life, liberty and air? Maybe corn, weed and chili? Football, apple pie and shotguns?
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No, they're not random ideas. It's based on principle. If government's role isn't to protect life, why do we need government? Protecting life, liberty, and property is essentially just protecting life:

Your life is manifest in past, present, and future. To kill is to take away someone's future.

To enslave, or deny liberty is to take away someone's present.

Property is the present manifestation of your past, or literally "proof of life". To steal is to take away someone's past.

Therefore, to protect life, government must also protect liberty, and property.
 
#47
#47
nbakerld said:
No, they're not random ideas. It's based on principle. If government's role isn't to protect life, why do we need government? Protecting life, liberty, and property is essentially just protecting life:

Your life is manifest in past, present, and future. To kill is to take away someone's future.

To enslave, or deny liberty is to take away someone's present.

Property is the present manifestation of your past, or literally "proof of life". To steal is to take away someone's past.

Therefore, to protect life, government must also protect liberty, and property.
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Property is what? That sounds loony. Why not "my good looks are manifestation of my past, or literally proof of life". To steal one's appearance is to take away someone's past.

The idea of existence of government isn't about protection of life either. It's about the power of grouped people over power of disparate individuals.

Denying liberty isn't only about slavery either.

Again, you could come up with an enormous list of ideals and your three aren't the lone three that matter.
 
#48
#48
Muschump said:
Do you? Got a lot of pipeline running through tha A?

I know people that are having it done in their backyard aren't happy with it. That goes further with me than what you read on an internet blog.
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its called the Colonial Pipeline and its three pipelines, 1 36 inch line and 2 40 inch lines that deliver 100 million gallons of gasoline everyday and it runs through many million $$ houses backyards
 
#49
#49
VolsNSkinsFan said:
its called the Colonial Pipeline and its three pipelines, 1 36 inch line and 2 40 inch lines that deliver 100 million gallons of gasoline everyday and it runs through many million $$ houses backyards
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Again, does it run through your backyard?
I own a multi-generation farm that is in both Rutherford and Bedford counties, Tennessee. We have not cut any trees from the woods since W.W.II. We have about 30 head of cattle, which keep the bushes down and pay for the taxes. The wildlife runs free. We have ponds, and old cabins that belonged to my great uncles born in the 1800's. There is a graveyard there from the 20's undisturbed. I planned to move there and would have a house where the proposed pipeline is to go, except I have had cancer in the past, and I couldn't get reasonable health coverage in Tenn. I will come when insurance is available. I plan to leave this land/dream-house to my children and grandchildren.

Colonial Pipeline Company proposes a 40 foot easement with a 20inch pipeline, and they talk in their brochure about eminent domain. They are proposing to go through the middle of four of my family members' farms. I understand they have a bad reputation for spills and for having to be sued to clean up. The Land they want to go through is watershed registered with the EPA: Harpeth, Duck and Stones, I believe. There are many underground caves, sinkholes and wetlands. Occasionally there have been fish in the wells. The water rises out of sinkholes and a stream runs in the rainy season. I believe polluting the ground water will cause pollutants to travel for many miles. Other states run gasoline lines along highways and not through the middle of peoples' farms, in the yards of homes belonging to the elderly and to churches, and over underground caves where water runs for miles.

I don't want to build my family dream home next to this pipeline to live in constant danger. I don't want Colonial to take out the trees that my father climbed when he was a boy. They could have been cut and sold to give the family necessities, but they were saved. I don't want the fields he plowed (where he received 2 broken ribs when a rock hit him, thrown back by the plow) to be disturbed with blasting, bulldozers, maintenance roads and pumping stations.
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Seems like the party always so concerned with their "grandchildren's future" is missing the boat on this one.
 
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#50
#50
BigPapaVol said:
Property is what? That sounds loony. (1) Why not "my good looks are manifestation of my past, or literally proof of life". To steal one's appearance is to take away someone's past.

The idea of existence of government isn't about protection of life either. (2) It's about the power of grouped people over power of disparate individuals.

(3) Denying liberty isn't only about slavery either.

(4) Again, you could come up with an enormous list of ideals and your three aren't the lone three that matter.
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(1) What? Property is the product of your life and liberty. How would you steal someone's appearance?

(2) That may be how democratic governments function, but it's not necessarily the purpose of government.

(3) No kidding. That's what the "or" in "enslave, or deny liberty" is for.

(4) You're right, those aren't the lone three ideals that matter, but the other ideals aren't best-pursued by government. They are best-pursued by individuals, themselves.
 
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