The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

[omghulkhands]

At least Joe is overthrowing receivers that are getting behind the defense. Even though he’s not connecting often enough, those potential 50 yard gains or more seem to help open up opportunities for big gains in the running game. If his pass attempts were underneath then the running backs aren’t likely to be getting 80 yard touchdown runs. Plus Joe will have designed runs for himself called in the bowl game.

Your last point is big I think. I believe the coaching staff clearly didn’t wanna risk running Joe yesterday, and it’s why we didn’t see it happen.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

Definitely enjoyed the win, the dominance, and how our defense responded.

That being said, my concern is that some of those same symptoms of "Overthrow Joe" were present against USCe in his limited time, as well. I had this conversation in the recruiting forum earlier in the week and it was explained away by some people who wanted to excuse it due to limited reps in the game, by emphasizing that Hooker also overthrows guys, and I figure there will be reasons to excuse it from the Vandy game (weather and injuries). I just think he hasn't learned to harness his cannon. At this point, it just feels like the issue is one we'll have to deal with if the staff determines he's the best option.

I’m not saying it isn’t a concern, I have some small concerns, too. But, the weather last night was pretty awful. Not exactly ideal conditions for your “dress rehearsal” for the starting job. Russell Smith of Fox Sports Knoxville also made a good point that the offense was down quite a few injured players, and you could argue that Milton had to play with an entirely new set of receivers due to Tillman and Bru being out. Hyatt and Keyton were not playing their normal positions.

I’m not trying to make excuses, I just think I am personally going to see how Joe performs after a month of prep for the bowl game and in likely better weather for an entire game. He certainly has some flaws, but it was unrealistic to expect us to replace a Heisman caliber player and not miss a beat. It was always going to be a step down from Hooker. Even if Nico starts next year, it will be a step back for a true freshmen. I don’t think people realize how hard it will be to replace Hooker.

 

[VolArmy74]

Joe won't ever be Hooker, but I agree with Mookie that weather has to be factored into the equation last night. We also threw an inordinate number of deep balls last night, which are always low percentage and avoided, for the most part, the shorter, middle of the field/post routes etc. That seemed to clear running lanes up pretty well and we saw a lot of grass past the first level on running plays.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I’m thinking our current back up is a walk on so it’s not likely they will want to run Joe much?

Joe won’t be rode hard early on. But if the offense struggles while the defense fails to get stops he’ll certainly have his number called in a close bowl game.

Gaston Moore is a walk-on, but he is in his 3rd year in Heupel’s system. He was also a late bloomer in high school but had over 2,000 yards and 20 touchdowns his senior year. Plus he’s 6’2”.

 

[cncchris33]

I’m not saying it isn’t a concern, I have some small concerns, too. But, the weather last night was pretty awful. Not exactly ideal conditions for your “dress rehearsal” for the starting job. Russell Smith of Fox Sports Knoxville also made a good point that the offense was down quite a few injured players, and you could argue that Milton had to play with an entirely new set of receivers due to Tillman and Bru being out. Hyatt and Keyton were not playing their normal positions.

I’m not trying to make excuses, I just think I am personally going to see how Joe performs after a month of prep for the bowl game and in likely better weather for an entire game. He certainly has some flaws, but it was unrealistic to expect us to replace a Heisman caliber player and not miss a beat. It was always going to be a step down from Hooker. Even if Nico starts next year, it will be a step back for a true freshmen. I don’t think people realize how hard it will be to replace Hooker.

Just to be clear, I wasn't expecting a seamless transition with no noticeable drop-off. Hooker, as you said, is and will continue to be tough to replace. Joe isn't as good, but I'm trying to compare Joe to the version of himself that we saw, and grew frustrated with, last year. A lot of those same issues are still in play, particular the propensity to airmail the ball to his receivers. Weather can be blamed against Vandy, but his ball placement was consistently too deep on throws that required some finesse outside of the opening drive bomb to Hyatt, which accounted for nearly half of his passing yards on the night. Fortunately, the run game was on point, and the opponent was hot garbage. We'll need him to be more dialed in against our bowl opponent and going forward.

 

[The Dog]

Just to be clear, I wasn't expecting a seamless transition with no noticeable drop-off. Hooker, as you said, is and will continue to be tough to replace. Joe isn't as good, but I'm trying to compare Joe to the version of himself that we saw, and grew frustrated with, last year. A lot of those same issues are still in play, particular the propensity to airmail the ball to his receivers. Weather can be blamed against Vandy, but his ball placement was consistently too deep on throws that required some finesse outside of the opening drive bomb to Hyatt, which accounted for nearly half of his passing yards on the night. Fortunately, the run game was on point, and the opponent was hot garbage. We'll need him to be more dialed in against our bowl opponent and going forward.

Also, there is this myth that Milton is some great running QB. Milton is big, fast and strong, but he is nowhere near as good a runner as Hooker. I don't trust Milton at all, hope he proves me wrong

 

[cncchris33]

.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Also, there is this myth that Milton is some great running QB. Milton is big, fast and strong, but he is nowhere near as good a runner as Hooker. I don't trust Milton at all, hope he proves me wrong

Uncle Milty is a better runner than most of UT’s QBs this side of Jimmy Streater. Not quite a Dobbs or a Hooker though.

 

[cardvolfan]

This next AP/Coaches basketball poll about to be real interesting.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Just to be clear, I wasn't expecting a seamless transition with no noticeable drop-off. Hooker, as you said, is and will continue to be tough to replace. Joe isn't as good, but I'm trying to compare Joe to the version of himself that we saw, and grew frustrated with, last year. A lot of those same issues are still in play, particular the propensity to airmail the ball to his receivers. Weather can be blamed against Vandy, but his ball placement was consistently too deep on throws that required some finesse outside of the opening drive bomb to Hyatt, which accounted for nearly half of his passing yards on the night. Fortunately, the run game was on point, and the opponent was hot garbage. We'll need him to be more dialed in against our bowl opponent and going forward.

1st incompletion in the 1st quarter Hyatt was covered and Joe just threw it away. Hyatt was lone WR on that side of the field, throw it away was the right call unless he wanted to run (which I think the staff told him not to run any)
2nd incompletion in the 1st quarter overthrew Squirrel who was in double coverage, throw was fine but if White was in double coverage. Another play where Joe taking off would have given us a first down.
3rd incompletion end of the 1st quarter overthrows Squirrel in endzone. Had time, had WR open this one was just a bad overthrow.
4th incompletion slight overthrow, White didn't get a clean break around defender and nothing was called (ran the exact same route and White got a DPI when he was tackled the next play)
5th incompletion Hyatt overthrow into the endzone, should have more touch and Hyatt gets there. Just a bad overthrow
6th incompletion pressure and Joe scrambles to his left and tries to make a throw with 5 defenders closing in on him. Hard throw to make across body running left.
7th incompletion pressure and Joe rolls to his right and tries to force a laser to Fant and DB gets a hand on it. Bad decision here, throw would have been a strike if DB misses it (my least favorite throw of the entire night by Joe)
8th incompletion, Fant shows a slant and Joe lobs him a perfect ball but Fant had went Vertical. Fant's fault for changing his route imo.
9th incompletion, deep ball to end 3rd quarter to White think this one got impacted by the wind. But was an overthrow and White was free
10th incompletion, deep ball on target to Keyton who drops it.

So really of the 10 misses I felt like 4 were completely on Joe. Of the 10 he had a total of 6 that were overthrow balls, but of those 6 only 3 were just bad throws and not timing or route issues.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Also, there is this myth that Milton is some great running QB. Milton is big, fast and strong, but he is nowhere near as good a runner as Hooker. I don't trust Milton at all, hope he proves me wrong

I agree we'll need to see what he does for a full season. But so far he's averaged 5.7 YPC while at TN, but the bulk of those yards did come when he was the starting QB so it wasn't just during garbage time.

 

[cncchris33]

1st incompletion in the 1st quarter Hyatt was covered and Joe just threw it away. Hyatt was lone WR on that side of the field, throw it away was the right call unless he wanted to run (which I think the staff told him not to run any)
2nd incompletion in the 1st quarter overthrew Squirrel who was in double coverage, throw was fine but if White was in double coverage. Another play where Joe taking off would have given us a first down.
3rd incompletion end of the 1st quarter overthrows Squirrel in endzone. Had time, had WR open this one was just a bad overthrow.
4th incompletion slight overthrow, White didn't get a clean break around defender and nothing was called (ran the exact same route and White got a DPI when he was tackled the next play)
5th incompletion Hyatt overthrow into the endzone, should have more touch and Hyatt gets there. Just a bad overthrow
6th incompletion pressure and Joe scrambles to his left and tries to make a throw with 5 defenders closing in on him. Hard throw to make across body running left.
7th incompletion pressure and Joe rolls to his right and tries to force a laser to Fant and DB gets a hand on it. Bad decision here, throw would have been a strike if DB misses it (my least favorite throw of the entire night by Joe)
8th incompletion, Fant shows a slant and Joe lobs him a perfect ball but Fant had went Vertical. Fant's fault for changing his route imo.
9th incompletion, deep ball to end 3rd quarter to White think this one got impacted by the wind. But was an overthrow and White was free
10th incompletion, deep ball on target to Keyton who drops it.

So really of the 10 misses I felt like 4 were completely on Joe. Of the 10 he had a total of 6 that were overthrow balls, but of those 6 only 3 were just bad throws and not timing or route issues.

Yeah, clearly no one expects him to be perfect, and yes, a lot of his criticism is based on his history of overthrows dating back to last season which combined with injury and exceptional play from Hooker, cost him his job.

Still, if that deep ball is going to be a big part of the game plan with him at the helm (and given his arm strength, it probably should be), then he is going to have to clean up the touch and accuracy issues if he's going to attempt to replicate this season's success.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Yeah, clearly no one expects him to be perfect, and yes, a lot of his criticism is based on his history of overthrows dating back to last season which combined with injury and exceptional play from Hooker, cost him his job.

Still, if that deep ball is going to be a big part of the game plan with him at the helm (and given his arm strength, it probably should be), then he is going to have to clean up the touch and accuracy issues if he's going to attempt to replicate this season's success.

Yeah we need him to hit on the deep ball at about 40% or so...he didn't against Vandy.

I wanna see a more "normal" gameplan though. With the weather, missing WRs and then having OL leave in the 2nd quarter it was pretty obvious that Alex/Heupel changed the playcalling to basically be "all or nothing" with any passing attempts. And once the running game got going they just stopped really throwing at all.

 

[johnfnkelly]

Yeah we need him to hit on the deep ball at about 40% or so...he didn't against Vandy.

I wanna see a more "normal" gameplan though. With the weather, missing WRs and then having OL leave in the 2nd quarter it was pretty obvious that Alex/Heupel changed the playcalling to basically be "all or nothing" with any passing attempts. And once the running game got going they just stopped really throwing at all.

In hindsight our playcalling was incredibly vanilla. It was either run/ deep ball for 80% of the game. Milton didn't run the rock all night which was likely to keep him healthy due to our lack of qb depth rn.

We kept it simple and won 56-0 lol

 

[MoCo_Vol]

In hindsight our playcalling was incredibly vanilla. It was either run/ deep ball for 80% of the game. Milton didn't run the rock all night which was likely to keep him healthy due to our lack of qb depth rn.

We kept it simple and won 56-0 lol

Exactly. I'm pretty sure the message to the team all week was. "We don't need to do anything special, we just need to beat the guy in front of us."

Team responded, it was the lowest amount of penalties in a game for us all year, it was our highest production game in yards and yards per carry for the running game all year. Also we only ran 53 plays so nearly 20 plays less than our offense usually runs. No turnovers either for the offense and it was the defense's best game of the season overall.

 

[johnfnkelly]

How does the lineup change when JJJ returns? There's no way you relegate Mashack back to warming the bench.

 

[johnfnkelly]

don't understand why we don't see this more from Olivier. It's like he doesn't understand he's 6'9 230.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

How does the lineup change when JJJ returns? There's no way you relegate Mashack back to warming the bench.

Unless TN puts JJJ at the 4, Mashack pretty much has to give up some playing time. JM isn’t a good option at the 2 (on offense) and JJJ and Phillips need to be on the court a lot. But Mashack can still average close to 20 minutes subbing for Phillips and JJJ and even being in the lineup with JJJ at the 4. But TN kind of needs 2 of SV, Key, and ZZ on the floor together.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

How does the lineup change when JJJ returns? There's no way you relegate Mashack back to warming the bench.

My guess is JJJ will come off the bench for a few of these “buy” games to ease him back in. But, eventually I think the starting lineup is going to be….

Key
Vescovi
Phillips
JJJ
ORN

 

[MoCo_Vol]

View attachment 518896

don't understand why we don't see this more from Olivier. It's like he doesn't understand he's 6'9 230.

To be fair, despite being a senior Oliver has about the same amount of minutes on court as a vol as ZZ.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Unless TN puts JJJ at the 4, Mashack pretty much has to give up some playing time. JM isn’t a good option at the 2 (on offense) and JJJ and Phillips need to be on the court a lot. But Mashack can still average close to 20 minutes subbing for Phillips and JJJ and even being in the lineup with JJJ at the 4. But TN kind of needs 2 of SV, Key, and ZZ on the floor together.

I don’t think there will be A lineup this year. With all the moving parts Coach can mix and match to EITHER matchup to the other team’s 5 on the court OR put a team out there to force them to make changes to matchup to us. Late in game with a lead he may have a specific preferred group for ball handling and FT shooting.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I don’t think there will be A lineup this year. With all the moving parts Coach can mix and match to EITHER matchup to the other team’s 5 on the court OR put a team out there to force them to make changes to matchup to us. Late in game with a lead he may have a specific preferred group for ball handling and FT shooting.

They probably will settle in to a consistent starting 5 and possibly even the finishing 5 (with ZZ on the floor as long as his lack of height isn’t being exploited by the opponent). It will be the middle 30 minutes that will be constantly fluctuating. If Aidoo keeps contributing as he did at the B4A then Uros minutes will be trimmed. If opponents have a mid-sized player scoring at will, then Mashack’s number gets called for longer spells. Phillips stays out of foul trouble and makes good decisions, he could average 35+ minutes. If Awaka develops then ORN’s minutes could shrink.

Right now Awaka and BJE look as if they will have minor roles this year. If either makes big improvements then the rotations will be significantly altered from the current 1st nine’s distribution.

Mashack will get major minutes if he’s not a liability on offense.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I’m glad that DJ is redshirting. Depth looks like it is going to be a bigger issue in the next year or two. 6 of the first 9 in the current rotation could be gone next year even with zero transfers out. I hope he’s 100% good with that RS decision.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Ouch for the LV. Started at #5 and by week 4 they are out of the Top 25.

 

[Ace]

My guess is JJJ will come off the bench for a few of these “buy” games to ease him back in. But, eventually I think the starting lineup is going to be….

Key
Vescovi
Phillips
JJJ
ORN

I think Barnes likes starting Uros. Uros seems to play better if he starts