The Official 2025 March Madness Discussion Thread

#2,551
#2,551
n_huffhines said:
I wonder how many times this century the #1 pick has been somebody who played in a F4? Oden. Davis. Rose. Did Blake Griffin play in a F4? KAT? Crazy how rare it is.
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I love questions like this that force me to do research. Since 2000 (the last 25 seasons), these #1 picks have played in a Final Four:

2007: Greg Oden
2008: Derrick Rose
2012: Anthony Davis
2015: Karl Anthony-Towns
2022: Paolo Banchero

Contrast that with the 80s and 90s, when twelve #1 picks (over 20 seasons) played in a FF:

1980: Joe Barry Carroll
1981: Mark Aguirre
1982: James Worthy
1983: Ralph Sampson
1984: Akeem Olajuwon
1985: Patrick Ewing
1988: Danny Manning
1989: Pervis Ellison
1990: Derrick Coleman
1991: Larry Johnson
1993: Chris Webber
1999: Elton Brand
 
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#2,555
#2,555
omghulkhands said:
What percentage of #1 picks in that time played college basketball?
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Looks like 18 of 25.

if you actually look at list, the guys may not all have been to a F4, but every #1 pick in the 90's had legitimate college star power except Olawakandi. Contrast that with these guys who were pretty irrelevant in college

Screenshot_20250406-185738_Chrome.jpg
 
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#2,556
#2,556
n_huffhines said:
Looks like 18 of 25.

if you actually look at list, the guys may not all have been to a F4, but every #1 pick in the 90's had legitimate college star power except Olawakandi. Contrast that with these guys who were pretty irrelevant in college

View attachment 733524
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Deandre Ayton averaged 20 and 11 as a freshman on a team that won the Pac 12 regular season and tournament. They did lose in the first round to a Nate Oats team. Not really irrelevant.
 
#2,557
#2,557
VolGee4 said:
Deandre Ayton averaged 20 and 11 as a freshman on a team that won the Pac 12 regular season and tournament. They did lose in the first round to a Nate Oats team. Not really irrelevant.
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Anthony Edwards also averaged nearly 20 for a bad Georgia team. Even though we smoked them by 17 he got 26 against us. Simmons also averaged nearly 20 points a game, nearly 12 rebounds, and nearly 5 assists for an awful LSU team. They were real stand-outs, and reinforced that maybe having the best player doesn’t mean you’ll have a good team.
 
#2,558
#2,558
VolGee4 said:
Deandre Ayton averaged 20 and 11 as a freshman on a team that won the Pac 12 regular season and tournament. They did lose in the first round to a Nate Oats team. Not really irrelevant.
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He was good but had almost no actual star power. I lived in Arizona at the time and he wasn't even a household name here.
 
#2,559
#2,559
n_huffhines said:
He was good but had almost no actual star power. I lived in Arizona at the time and he wasn't even a household name here.
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What? He was the Pac 12 Player of the Year. He also spent his last 2 HS years in Phoenix and was a top 5 recruit. Then, after he leaves, Miller got caught up in the Adidas investigation where they paid him to go to Arizona.
 
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#2,560
#2,560
VolGee4 said:
What? He was the Pac 12 Player of the Year. He also spent his last 2 HS years in Phoenix and was a top 5 recruit. Then, after he leaves, Miller got caught up in the Adidas investigation where they paid him to go to Arizona.
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Being pac 12 poy doesn't make you famous. I can't name the Big Ten POY RN, and I watch college hoops. I'm talking about players with actual star power that people tune into see, like Zion and Cooper. And Shaq, Webber, Iverson, Duncan, etc. I knew who Tim Duncan was before I knew what Wake Forest was.
 
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#2,566
#2,566
n_huffhines said:
Being pac 12 poy doesn't make you famous. I can't name the Big Ten POY RN, and I watch college hoops. I'm talking about players with actual star power that people tune into see, like Zion and Cooper. And Shaq, Webber, Iverson, Duncan, etc. I knew who Tim Duncan was before I knew what Wake Forest was.
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Being the one person who doesn't know something doesn't mean the person isn't famous or known either.
 
#2,567
#2,567
#1 Draft Picks last 25 years that played in college: 18

2024 - Zaccharie Risacher outta Spain
2023 - Victor Wembanyama outta France
2022 - Paolo Banchero at Duke
2021 - Cade Cunningham at Ok State
2020 - Anthony Edwards at Georgia
2019 - Zion Williamson at Duke
2018 - Deandre Ayton at Arizona
2017 - Markelle Fultz at Washington
2016 - Ben Simmons at LSU
2015 - Karl-Anthony Towns at Kentucky
2014 - Andrew Wiggins at Kansas
2013 - Anthony Bennett at UNLV
2012 - Anthony Davis at Kentucky
2011 - Kyrie Irving at Duke
2010 - John Wall at Kentucky
2009 - Blake Griffin at OU
2008 - Derrick Rose at Memphis
2007 - Greg Oden at Ohio State
2006 - Andrea Bargnani outta Italy
2005 - Andrew Bogut at Utah
2004 - Dwight Howard outta HS
2003 - LeBron James outta HS
2002 - Yao Ming outta China
2001 - Kwame outta HS
2000 - Kenyon Martin at Cincinnati
 
#2,568
#2,568
MoCo_Vol said:
Being the one person who doesn't know something doesn't mean the person isn't famous or known either.
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The one person? College hardos know who he is. The average person does not. I doubt 10 out of 100 people could even say what school the BT POY played for.

I think you guys lose the point because I said Ayton was irrelevant. I only mean as a national draw. Not talking about what he brought to a basketball game. I'm talking about the eyeballs he brings in. Nobody cared about him outside of people who watch no matter what. It was hard for the nation to care about the guy because he's not a very exciting player, was only on the scene for 3 months, and lost in the 1st rd of the tourney.

Contrast that with Cooper Flagg, who has been all over my Instagram for 4+ years. People tune in for him because he's an actual superstar.
 
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#2,569
#2,569
n_huffhines said:
The one person? College hardos know who he is. The average person does not. I doubt 10 out of 100 people could even say what school the BT POY played for.

I think you guys lose the point because I said Ayton was irrelevant. I only mean as a national draw. Not talking about what he brought to a basketball game. I'm talking about the eyeballs he brings in. Nobody cared about him outside of people who watch no matter what. It was hard for the nation to care about the guy because he's not a very exciting player, was only on the scene for 3 months, and lost in the 1st rd of the tourney.

Contrast that with Cooper Flagg, who has been all over my Instagram for 4+ years. People tune in for him because he's an actual superstar.
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You're shifting the goal post. Ayton was the Pac-12 POY, #1 overall pick in the NBA draft... he wasn't irrelevant that's kind of the point I'm making.

The next part about who is a bigger national draw is a different discussion. Cooper Flagg is for sure a bigger national draw now than Ayton was then. Lots of factors go into that, many you've already mentioned.
 
#2,570
#2,570
MoCo_Vol said:
You're shifting the goal post. Ayton was the Pac-12 POY, #1 overall pick in the NBA draft... he wasn't irrelevant that's kind of the point I'm making.

The next part about who is a bigger national draw is a different discussion. Cooper Flagg is for sure a bigger national draw now than Ayton was then. Lots of factors go into that, many you've already mentioned.
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Yes. Flagg plays for Duke, which inherently brings in fringe fans.

Ayton played on the west coast. Notice that most of the recent "superstars" he mentioned- they played for Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas. The media plays into that as well.
 
#2,571
#2,571
VolGee4 said:
Yes. Flagg plays for Duke, which inherently brings in fringe fans.

Ayton played on the west coast. Notice that most of the recent "superstars" he mentioned- they played for Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas. The media plays into that as well.
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Flagg is also the great white hype which draws in more fans as well. Just like how Yao Ming brought in and expanded viewership for the NBA. Diversity drives up numbers.
 
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#2,573
#2,573
MoCo_Vol said:
You're shifting the goal post. Ayton was the Pac-12 POY, #1 overall pick in the NBA draft... he wasn't irrelevant that's kind of the point I'm making.

The next part about who is a bigger national draw is a different discussion. Cooper Flagg is for sure a bigger national draw now than Ayton was then. Lots of factors go into that, many you've already mentioned.
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No, I'm not, and I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to keep arguing about this. This is the context under which we started talking about Ayton

n_huffhines said:
It's not about your satisfaction on Sunday. It's about how many people tune in on Monday night.
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n_huffhines said:
If you actually look at list, the guys may not all have been to a F4, but every #1 pick in the 90's had legitimate college star power except Olawakandi.
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When I said he was irrelevant, I was not talking about his talent or accolades. I'm saying he probably never played in a game that 5m people watched until his tourney debut where he was upset. He didn't ever build true star power in college, which is a fairly consistent theme with today's top NBA talent.
 
#2,574
#2,574
MoCo_Vol said:
Flagg is also the great white hype which draws in more fans as well. Just like how Yao Ming brought in and expanded viewership for the NBA. Diversity drives up numbers.
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Flagg is transcendent. It's not just that he's the great white hype, it's that he's as hyped as they come, and a white guy playing for Duke, and somehow he has an extremely high approval rating all over basketball fandom. It seems impossible, but I guess that's what happens when you go to Ruckers and get everybody's adoration before you choose Duke. Belonging on the court with team USA as a 17 YO doesn't hurt, either.
 
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