The payroll cut tax debacle

[lawgator1]

Boehner is, without question, the most ineffective Speaker of the House in my lifetime.

McConnell strikes a deal in the Senate and they get I think 80 votes, Boehner says he supports it.

And then he has a conference call and gets lambasted by the Tea Party wing nuts who now force him to say he and the House oppose it.

So its back to the drawing board. I wonder what new, absurd demand the loons he cannot control will come up with next?

 

[possumslayer]

Shouldn't you be working instead of playing on the internet ?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[lawgator1]

Breaking: Reid says he will not reopen the payroll tax cut debate until Senate passes the 2 month extension.

Good for him! Someone has to stand up to the wanna-be tyrants in the House and force Boehner to corral his members, since he doesn't have the stones to do it himself.

 

[utvolpj]

Breaking: Reid says he will not reopen the payroll tax cut debate until Senate passes the 2 month extension.

Good for him! Someone has to stand up to the wanna-be tyrants in the House and force Boehner to corral his members, since he doesn't have the stones to do it himself.

:lolabove:

“Although Mr. McConnell, like scores of his colleagues, voted for the Senate-brokered bill, he retreated from the measure on Sunday, throwing his support behind Mr. Boehner’s idea to come up with a yearlong extension, which was the original goal of Mr. Obama and Senate Democrats.”

 

[utvolpj]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...t-cannot-be-implemented-properly-experts-say/

Pete Isberg, president of the NPRC today wrote to the key leaders of the relevant committees of the House and Senate, telling them that “insufficient lead time” to implement the complicated change mandated by the legislation means the two-month payroll tax holiday “could create substantial problems, confusion and costs affecting a significant percentage of U.S. employers and employees.”

Isberg agreed that it would be fair to characterize his letter as saying that the two-month payroll tax holiday cannot be implemented properly.

 

[lawgator1]

The Senate Dems and Obama wanted a year long extension, that is correct.

A deal was brokered whereby it would be extended two months, and in fact it contained the key provision on the pipeline that the Dems had fought, forcing Obama to act on the permitting, etc., within 60 days. This was included so that, if Obama approved it he would take flack from his own base, whereas if he turned it down, the GOP could blast him on jobs in the upcoming election.

In the end, the Demos said okay to that requirement. They also took out the surcharge tax on millionaires.

Basically, the GOP got almost everything they wanted, with the Dems compromising and giving up on the two main issues they had with the original House proposal.

This is why there were 89 votes for the bill in the Senate.

On Saturday, Boehner said he supported the Senate bill.

Then he had his phone conference with the Tea Party members.

And on Sunday morning he said he and the House opposed the Senate bill.




And so now the Dems are going to call him and the TP on this bull shiite. Its the same thing they did on the earlier attempts at deals on long term and substantial budget cuts, which is that the relatively sane leadership comes in and negotiates a good deal, only to be threatened by the Cantors of the world and told that they will be ousted or have someone run against them if they don't cave in to them and backtrack on the deal.

I, for one, sincerely hope that Reid sticks to this statement that the Senate will not deal with this. First, as I say, since Boenher won't control his own people, the Dems will have to draw a line in the sand on this nonsense. Second, politically, this will absolutely kill the GOP early next year.

 

[volinbham]

Glad to see objective analysis is alive and well.

 

[volinbham]

Gee if all the Dems vote for it then only 25 Reps have to and it will pass. But no, this is the TP's fault - all 100 or so of them...

 

[bamawriter]

Breaking: Reid says he will not reopen the payroll tax cut debate until Senate passes the 2 month extension.

Good for him! Someone has to stand up to the wanna-be tyrants in the House and force Boehner to corral his members, since he doesn't have the stones to do it himself.

So the Republicans are wrong for wanting to discuss what everyone agrees is ultimately required, but Reid and his merry band of idiots are right for wanting to delay what everyone agrees is ultimately required?

I'm not sure you even believe the crap you post.

 

[utvolpj]

I see LG conveniently ignored the link that says the 2 month plan can't be implemented properly

We're also still waiting on those real cuts you repeatedly mention

 

[lawgator1]

Gee if all the Dems vote for it then only 25 Reps have to and it will pass. But no, this is the TP's fault - all 100 or so of them...

They are intimidating the rest, yes.

So the Republicans are wrong for wanting to discuss what everyone agrees is ultimately required, but Reid and his merry band of idiots are right for wanting to delay what everyone agrees is ultimately required?

I'm not sure you even believe the crap you post.

The Dems wanted the year long deal but it became clear that there was insufficient time to reach concensus on that and it was a REPUBLICAN, McConnel, who came up with this plan.

This was a GOP plan, and backed by most Republican Senators because everyone thought a deal was reached. Even Boehner thought there was a deal as of Saturday lunch time and he ACTIVELY supported it.



This is going to hurt the GOP badly next year. They have really stepped in it this time, thanks to the TP.

 

[bamawriter]

This is going to hurt the GOP badly next year. They have really stepped in it this time, thanks to the TP.

You further prove that you can't possibly believe what you post.

 

[RespectTradition]

They are intimidating the rest, yes.

The Dems wanted the year long deal but it became clear that there was insufficient time to reach concensus on that and it was a REPUBLICAN, McConnel, who came up with this plan.

This was a GOP plan, and backed by most Republican Senators because everyone thought a deal was reached. Even Boehner thought there was a deal as of Saturday lunch time and he ACTIVELY supported it.

This is going to hurt the GOP badly next year. They have really stepped in it this time, thanks to the TP.

How exactly do the TP members intimidate anyone?

Maybe, the GOP establishment is still too slow on the uptake. Business as usual is the problem, not the solution. You can't compromise your way into a suicide pact. Every 'compromise' I have seen from the Dems are simply a form of economic suicide... some are just slower than others.

 

[lawgator1]

Wow, the House GOP is in disarray over this. They have been outmaneuvered by the Dems and now realize that they are going to, correctly, be called out as the fools they are, and blamed for the tax cut expiring.

I thought Republicans liked tax cuts. What, not ones for the working class, just for millionaires and billionaires?


House Republicans scrap direct vote on Senate payroll tax plan - CNN.com

 

[volinbham]

.

 

[bamawriter]

LG,

In the interest of full disclosure: I don't think this particular tax cut should be extended at all. So the following does not reflect my personal views.

If the Republicans wind up getting the year long extension, which is really what they're jockeying for, rather than a 2 month extension that is completely impossible to implement and will require even more ridiculous debate come February, how is that going to reflect poorly on the House Republicans?

 

[dreVol]

LG,

In the interest of full disclosure: I don't think this particular tax cut should be extended at all. So the following does not reflect my personal views.

If the Republicans wind up getting the year long extension, which is really what they're jockeying for, rather than a 2 month extension that is completely impossible to implement and will require even more ridiculous debate come February, how is that going to reflect poorly on the House Republicans?

The GOP doesn't have the benefit of friendly media coverage.

 

[bamawriter]

The GOP doesn't have the benefit of friendly media coverage.

The mainstream media's influence is not what it once was.

 

[volinbham]

Really, the only thing I like in the law is the pressure on Keystone. The PR tax holiday is nice and may have some effect around the edges but it simply avoids the real issue of tax reform. Paying for it with higher borrowing fees through Fannie/Freddie seems counterproductive to economic stimulus.

 

[lawgator1]

LG,

In the interest of full disclosure: I don't think this particular tax cut should be extended at all. So the following does not reflect my personal views.

If the Republicans wind up getting the year long extension, which is really what they're jockeying for, rather than a 2 month extension that is completely impossible to implement and will require even more ridiculous debate come February, how is that going to reflect poorly on the House Republicans?

The GOP doesn't have the benefit of friendly media coverage.

Struggling to understand how you can say this when it was McConnell, a Republican, who proposed it, it got 39 Republican votes in the Senate, and Boehner said he supported it (before saying he opposed it just hours later).

Spin it all you want as that they just want it for a full year. That's bogus. The TP opposes it because they don't want Obama to be able to claim any sort of achievement on anything, especially if it helps the middle class.

They are counting on the notion that in their more conservative districts they can sell the complete and utter lie that the bill is a bad idea. The mainstream GOP members are getting bent over on this one and by their own party. Boehner, in particular, has got to be just incredibly frustrated.

 

[volinbham]

They are counting on the notion that in their more conservative districts they can sell the complete and utter lie that the bill is a bad idea.

I think it's a stretch to suggest thinking the bill is a bad idea is a complete and utter lie.

The impact on the economy will be negligible. It is more of a feel good extension. Raising borrowing/refi fees to pay for it partially seems questionable too.

Bottomline, it's marginal legislation at best and I can see why people might think it's a bad idea.

 

[bamawriter]

Struggling to understand how you can say this when it was McConnell, a Republican, who proposed it, it got 39 Republican votes in the Senate, and Boehner said he supported it (before saying he opposed it just hours later).

Spin it all you want as that they just want it for a full year. That's bogus. The TP opposes it because they don't want Obama to be able to claim any sort of achievement on anything, especially if it helps the middle class.

How much positive rub did Obama and the Congressional Dems get off the tax cut when it was first implemented?

 

[Gramps]

Gee if all the Dems vote for it then only 25 Reps have to and it will pass. But no, this is the TP's fault - all 100 or so of them...

That is true with only one little problem. The house GOP has to put the Senate bill on the floor for a vote. If they did it would probably pass.

How exactly do the TP members intimidate anyone?

They are intimadating Boehner. He will not put the Senate Bill on the floor for a vote due to pressure he is receiving from the Tea party.

 

[volinbham]

That is true with only one little problem. The house GOP has to put the Senate bill on the floor for a vote. If they did it would probably pass.

Agree





They are intimadating Boehner. He will not put the Senate Bill on the floor for a vote due to pressure he is receiving from the Tea party.

The vote to not put it on the floor was 8-4 in committee. That suggests at least a couple Dems on the committee voted to keep it off the floor and onto joint committee.

 

[lawgator1]

The vote to not put it on the floor was 8-4 in committee. That suggests at least a couple Dems on the committee voted to keep it off the floor and onto joint committee.

The reports are that there was a caucus Monday night of all Republicans for 2 hours. What happened is that it became clear that if the Senate plan came up for a vote in the full house, as originally recommended by Boehner last week, then enough Republicans would vote for it that it would pass.

And so, ironically, to prevent that from happening this was tendered to the rules committee that prevented the full vote. The reason for that is three fold: 1) had it come to the floor then anyone voting against it could be called out in November as having voted for a tax increase; 2) the TP, led by Cantor, want to prevent the measure from passing, at all as they want to keep Obama from having any victories and they do not favor any tax breaks for the middle class unless they can secure tax cuts for the wealthy; and, 3) if it passed the House on a divide within the party, then those supporting it would have to worry about a challenge from the right within their own party for having voted for something bipartisan and that in any small measure helped Obama.

Boehner is herding cats at this point.