The "People's Budget" from Progressive Caucus

#101
#101
Is there any doubt, any more, that gibbs is a Marxist? Sure, he denies and decries Marx, but like any good true believer, he's also a hypocrite. "I'm not a Marxist." he whines, while advocating Marxist ideals, praising thugs like Che Guevara and Fidel Castro, using terms like "public wealth" and continually decrying "capital" despite benefiting from the capitalist society he lives in.

It's just tiresome now. gibbs is a fool and a charlatan.
 
#102
#102
The problem I have with it is that people are all too willing to champion it or criticize Marx without reading it. Agree or disagree with Capital, it certainly has had a profound impact on the world and I wish people would read it and think critically about it before discussing it seriously. I know very few people who have actually read it.
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#103
#103
milohimself said:
The problem I have with it is that people are all too willing to champion it or criticize Marx without reading it. Agree or disagree with Capital, it certainly has had a profound impact on the world and I wish people would read it and think critically about it before discussing it seriously. I know very few people who have actually read it.
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I wish people would read "Atlas Shrugged"

Amazon.com: Atlas Shrugged (9780452011878): Ayn Rand, Leonard Peikoff: Books
 
#104
#104
utgibbs said:
This has indeed been eye-opening to me. It means either one of two things:

1. Y'all approve of "market distortions" (all the while demanding a free market. Note volinbham's response), or

2. Y'all are truly confused about the real world outside the back door.

Taxes on profits are not costs. This is something every entrepreneur knows.
They, of course, affect your after tax profits but they do not affect your profits.
In a true market, therefore, prices would be stable with an increase in tax rates, shall we go over the figures for corporate profitability from WWII to Nixon????????

As volinbham (at my suggestion) begins to hint at, could there be market

distortions at work? :question:
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WOW...
Thank you Gibbs.
I have been running my dinky little business since 1977 and I have been doing it wrong for 34 years. How silly of me. I have always counted my taxes as part of the cost of doing business.
 
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#106
#106
milohimself said:
The problem I have with it is that people are all too willing to champion it or criticize Marx without reading it. Agree or disagree with Capital, it certainly has had a profound impact on the world and I wish people would read it and think critically about it before discussing it seriously. I know very few people who have actually read it.
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+1

There's a lot to take away from Capital as well as TCM, regardless of whether you agree with it or not. It's been a few years since I read TCM, but I read Capital a few months and thought about writing a critical essay for it. It was a very insightful read.
 
#108
#108
VolDad said:
I wish people would read "Atlas Shrugged"
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I try to not put too much stock into fictional works. The last time I did that, I ended up in Clearwater, Florida with a shaved head and no possessions.*


I should probably read it, though. As I have no idea what it is, and it is referenced here quite often.







* Events did not actually occur.
 
#109
#109
utgibbs said:
This has indeed been eye-opening to me. It means either one of two things:

1. Y'all approve of "market distortions" (all the while demanding a free market. Note volinbham's response), or

2. Y'all are truly confused about the real world outside the back door.

Taxes on profits are not costs. This is something every entrepreneur knows. They, of course, affect your after tax profits but they do not affect your profits.

In a true market, therefore, prices would be stable with an increase in tax rates, shall we go over the figures for corporate profitability from WWII to Nixon????????

As volinbham (at my suggestion) begins to hint at, could there be market distortions at work? :question:
Click to expand...

Um, I'd like to raise a hand over here as one of the small business owners on here and call BS on eveything you just said. Taxes are always factored into cashflow and dictate things from raises, pay for employees, cost of purchasing or selling assets, mergers, purchasing a name or goodwill and day to day cost of the product being sold. You obviously do not own or have ever owned your own business. You are a liar if you say you have because anyone who does not realize this would bankrupt their business in less than 3 years.
 
#110
#110
Gramps said:
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WOW...
Thank you Gibbs.
I have been running my dinky little business since 1977 and I have been doing it wrong for 34 years. How silly of me. I have always counted my taxes as part of the cost of doing business.
Click to expand...

You fool. 34 years running your own business? This means nothing. Listen to Gibbs gorilla. He knows and sees all. So what if you've actually done it.


On a serious note, congratulations. 34 years is quite an accomplishment. I've owned mine for 9 and I bet I could learn quite alot from you. You've probably "lived" it all. :hi:
 
#111
#111
8102
 
#112
#112
Gramps said:
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WOW...
Thank you Gibbs.
I have been running my dinky little business since 1977 and I have been doing it wrong for 34 years. How silly of me. I have always counted my taxes as part of the cost of doing business.
Click to expand...

You're welcome. I've been running mine a little less time. And the gov't doesn't classify it as "dinky."

Taxes are part of the cost of doing business. They do not affect your profits and how you get them.

This is so academic.

If your taxes on profits doubled, could you raise your prices 2x?
 
#113
#113
NEOCON said:
Um, I'd like to raise a hand over here as one of the small business owners on here and call BS on eveything you just said. Taxes are always factored into cashflow and dictate things from raises, pay for employees, cost of purchasing or selling assets, mergers, purchasing a name or goodwill and day to day cost of the product being sold. You obviously do not own or have ever owned your own business. You are a liar if you say you have because anyone who does not realize this would bankrupt their business in less than 3 years.
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You are missing the forest for the trees. The argument has been taxes are costs which affect your profits. These costs must be passed on to the consumer. Taxes are the costs of doing business, not the same thing as costs going towards profits.

It is academic: if your taxes doubled, could you suddenly start charging double?

Sure, if you wanted to get ZERO profits and go out of business.

A properly functioning market, therefore, minimizes any effect of taxes on the consumer. And this is the argument. The consumer does not pay, and this is why the foolishness about not taking taxes from the corporate base at the individual rates is preposterous.
 
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#114
#114
Unless doubling your taxes would cut your profit for each service/good in half there wouldn't be a reason to double the price. You'd probably see some increase, though.

What was it you do, again?
 
#116
#116
kptvol said:
Unless doubling your taxes would cut your profit for each service/good in half there wouldn't be a reason to double the price. You'd probably see some increase, though.

What was it you do, again?
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he's claimed previously that he is a rentier.
 
#117
#117
utgibbs said:
You're welcome. I've been running mine a little less time. And the gov't doesn't classify it as "dinky."

Taxes are part of the cost of doing business. They do not affect your profits and how you get them.

This is so academic.

If your taxes on profits doubled, could you raise your prices 2x?
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MG1968 said:
he's claimed previously that he is a rentier.
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Gibbs,

If taxes doubled for all rental property owners, you would not raise your rent?
 
#118
#118
VolDad said:
Gibbs,

If taxes doubled for all rental property owners, you would not raise your rent?
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Without question I could not double rents. Nor could I double prices in my other cookie jars.

Taxes are not passed onto the consumer; they are absolutely not a cost in your ability to make profits. I should have thought of the easy example sooner, but I hire accountants. I am not one.

And I think it is time to concede, DVD, as I believe you started this. However, I've seen, once again, the power of marketing to make people think so (thanks, volinbham). The propaganda has been effective. The Man thanks you for your undivided attention. :hi:
 
#119
#119
utgibbs said:
Without question I could not double rents. Nor could I double prices in my other cookie jars.

Taxes are not passed onto the consumer; they are absolutely not a cost in your ability to make profits. I should have thought of the easy example sooner, but I hire accountants. I am not one.

And I think it is time to concede, DVD, as I believe you started this. However, I've seen, once again, the power of marketing to make people think so (thanks, volinbham). The propaganda has been effective. The Man thanks you for your undivided attention. :hi:
Click to expand...

wait, you're Joe Walsh?
 
#120
#120
utgibbs said:
Without question I could not double rents. Nor could I double prices in my other cookie jars.
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I'm not sure if you're being serious. You wouldn't need to double the rent to make up for the money lost to taxes.
 
#122
#122
utgibbs said:
Without question I could not double rents. Nor could I double prices in my other cookie jars.....
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Where did I say "double your rents"? I said if taxes doubled for all rental property owners would you not raise your rent?
 
#124
#124
utgibbs said:
You're welcome. I've been running mine a little less time. And the gov't doesn't classify it as "dinky."

Taxes are part of the cost of doing business. They do not affect your profits and how you get them.

This is so academic.

If your taxes on profits doubled, could you raise your prices 2x?
Click to expand...
Last question is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.
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#125
#125
VolDad said:
Where did I say "double your rents"? I said if taxes doubled for all rental property owners would you not raise your rent?
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Your OP completely contradicts this. You started by saying corporations do not pay taxes, they simply pass costs to the consumer. That implies the consumer pays for the tax burden. We have proven this absolutely false.

In today's market? - absolutely not. But I wear a lot of hats.
 
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