The Philadelphia shooting and reaction from Trump and Biden

#27
#27
lawgator1 said:
You are both dodging the question and simply saying you oppose violence, a point on which we all agree.
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We answered your question. You responded with another, and you are setting up a strawman argument. Seattle and Portland have had peaceful protests that, once the sun went down, were no longer peaceful. So again Seattle and Portland say "Hello"

portland-76.jpg
 
#29
#29
lawgator1 said:
1) I have seen the video and read the witness accounts, including background issues for Walter Wallace. My initial impression is that the officers were justified in firing. Wallace came at them with a knife, they backed up and he refused orders to drop the knife and instead came at them with it. While he was I'd estimate 15 to 20 feet away, and while they could probably back up further, that is not realistic. You can't just retreat forever, and it would take just 1-2 seconds for him to close that distance.

2) Wallace evidently had mental illness. But, you cannot ask the cops to deal with THAT. They are dealing with a person threatening them with a knife in that moment. If you want to criticize the system or society in the big picture for handling mental illness generally or specifically in the case of Wallace, that's fine. But the officers do not have the luxury of allowing themselves to be attack because he's not right in the head.

3) I have listened to the responses from both Biden and Trump. I think that the threshold reaction from both is correct in that both have said a) its a tragedy it happened; and b) looting and rioting is wrong. Its interesting that Biden went on to say that peaceful protesting is fine, but not any violence, whereas Trump did not speak to that at all and instead just criticized states or cities with Dem governance. I get why he does that, but its really not effective because its not that Dems promote or don't want to see an end to rioting and looting; it has to do with resources and not wanting to make a bad situation worse. Its easy for Trump to just say "we ought to get in their and knock some heads together and get control." But I think most people recognize that such a reaction, done poorly, can make the situation that much worse.

4) When looking into this I saw a posted article or claim of quote that Biden said in such cases the cops should just shoot them in the leg. I see that from a townhall, and the police advocates have criticized him for that. I agree with the police representatives and join the criticism of Biden for those comments. Police are trained to resort to deadly force when faced with a threat of death or great bodily harm. There is no time for gradations of response within that structure. If someone is threatening to kill you and has the apparent means to do it in that moment, your response has to be to kill them, not to try Kung Fu moves or tasers, shoot them in the leg, etc. Hopefully Biden listens to the experts on that down the line.
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agree with most of your points
 
#30
#30
Grand Vol said:
I absolutely and wholeheartedly support the freedom to assemble and address grievances against your government.

Peacefully...

I've seen plenty of BLM rallies where the protests were non-violent and got their point across. I support those, fought to defend people's right to do so and even support some of the points they bring about police reform.

But when those rallies are used as a vehicle to burn, loot and pillage. Or when people are bullying others into storing them. Or targeting others because they believe different, I draw the line. The position is not so absolute we cannot compromise.
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You left out blackmail....
 
#33
#33
lawgator1 said:
1) I have seen the video and read the witness accounts, including background issues for Walter Wallace. My initial impression is that the officers were justified in firing. Wallace came at them with a knife, they backed up and he refused orders to drop the knife and instead came at them with it. While he was I'd estimate 15 to 20 feet away, and while they could probably back up further, that is not realistic. You can't just retreat forever, and it would take just 1-2 seconds for him to close that distance.

2) Wallace evidently had mental illness. But, you cannot ask the cops to deal with THAT. They are dealing with a person threatening them with a knife in that moment. If you want to criticize the system or society in the big picture for handling mental illness generally or specifically in the case of Wallace, that's fine. But the officers do not have the luxury of allowing themselves to be attack because he's not right in the head.

3) I have listened to the responses from both Biden and Trump. I think that the threshold reaction from both is correct in that both have said a) its a tragedy it happened; and b) looting and rioting is wrong. Its interesting that Biden went on to say that peaceful protesting is fine, but not any violence, whereas Trump did not speak to that at all and instead just criticized states or cities with Dem governance. I get why he does that, but its really not effective because its not that Dems promote or don't want to see an end to rioting and looting; it has to do with resources and not wanting to make a bad situation worse. Its easy for Trump to just say "we ought to get in their and knock some heads together and get control." But I think most people recognize that such a reaction, done poorly, can make the situation that much worse.

4) When looking into this I saw a posted article or claim of quote that Biden said in such cases the cops should just shoot them in the leg. I see that from a townhall, and the police advocates have criticized him for that. I agree with the police representatives and join the criticism of Biden for those comments. Police are trained to resort to deadly force when faced with a threat of death or great bodily harm. There is no time for gradations of response within that structure. If someone is threatening to kill you and has the apparent means to do it in that moment, your response has to be to kill them, not to try Kung Fu moves or tasers, shoot them in the leg, etc. Hopefully Biden listens to the experts on that down the line.
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Tl;DR past "justified."

Question, why are they protesting then?
 
#34
#34
lawgator1 said:
1) I have seen the video and read the witness accounts, including background issues for Walter Wallace. My initial impression is that the officers were justified in firing. Wallace came at them with a knife, they backed up and he refused orders to drop the knife and instead came at them with it. While he was I'd estimate 15 to 20 feet away, and while they could probably back up further, that is not realistic. You can't just retreat forever, and it would take just 1-2 seconds for him to close that distance.

2) Wallace evidently had mental illness. But, you cannot ask the cops to deal with THAT. They are dealing with a person threatening them with a knife in that moment. If you want to criticize the system or society in the big picture for handling mental illness generally or specifically in the case of Wallace, that's fine. But the officers do not have the luxury of allowing themselves to be attack because he's not right in the head.

3) I have listened to the responses from both Biden and Trump. I think that the threshold reaction from both is correct in that both have said a) its a tragedy it happened; and b) looting and rioting is wrong. Its interesting that Biden went on to say that peaceful protesting is fine, but not any violence, whereas Trump did not speak to that at all and instead just criticized states or cities with Dem governance. I get why he does that, but its really not effective because its not that Dems promote or don't want to see an end to rioting and looting; it has to do with resources and not wanting to make a bad situation worse. Its easy for Trump to just say "we ought to get in their and knock some heads together and get control." But I think most people recognize that such a reaction, done poorly, can make the situation that much worse.

4) When looking into this I saw a posted article or claim of quote that Biden said in such cases the cops should just shoot them in the leg. I see that from a townhall, and the police advocates have criticized him for that. I agree with the police representatives and join the criticism of Biden for those comments. Police are trained to resort to deadly force when faced with a threat of death or great bodily harm. There is no time for gradations of response within that structure. If someone is threatening to kill you and has the apparent means to do it in that moment, your response has to be to kill them, not to try Kung Fu moves or tasers, shoot them in the leg, etc. Hopefully Biden listens to the experts on that down the line.
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Hell of a lot of words just to say Biden is an idiot.
 
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#37
#37
FLVOL69 said:
Random act of clarity
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LG is VolNation’s box of chocolates. Never know (for sure) what you’re gonna get from him. I’ll fall over dead if he admits voting for Trump. 😁
 
#38
#38
Vol737 said:
LG is VolNation’s box of chocolates. Never know (for sure) what you’re gonna get from him. I’ll fall over dead if he admits voting for Trump. 😁
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I gotta disagree. In a box full of nutty chocolates, a cream filled one was placed in it accidentally
 
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#39
#39
lawgator1 said:
1) I have seen the video and read the witness accounts, including background issues for Walter Wallace. My initial impression is that the officers were justified in firing. Wallace came at them with a knife, they backed up and he refused orders to drop the knife and instead came at them with it. While he was I'd estimate 15 to 20 feet away, and while they could probably back up further, that is not realistic. You can't just retreat forever, and it would take just 1-2 seconds for him to close that distance.

2) Wallace evidently had mental illness. But, you cannot ask the cops to deal with THAT. They are dealing with a person threatening them with a knife in that moment. If you want to criticize the system or society in the big picture for handling mental illness generally or specifically in the case of Wallace, that's fine. But the officers do not have the luxury of allowing themselves to be attack because he's not right in the head.

3) I have listened to the responses from both Biden and Trump. I think that the threshold reaction from both is correct in that both have said a) its a tragedy it happened; and b) looting and rioting is wrong. Its interesting that Biden went on to say that peaceful protesting is fine, but not any violence, whereas Trump did not speak to that at all and instead just criticized states or cities with Dem governance. I get why he does that, but its really not effective because its not that Dems promote or don't want to see an end to rioting and looting; it has to do with resources and not wanting to make a bad situation worse. Its easy for Trump to just say "we ought to get in their and knock some heads together and get control." But I think most people recognize that such a reaction, done poorly, can make the situation that much worse.

4) When looking into this I saw a posted article or claim of quote that Biden said in such cases the cops should just shoot them in the leg. I see that from a townhall, and the police advocates have criticized him for that. I agree with the police representatives and join the criticism of Biden for those comments. Police are trained to resort to deadly force when faced with a threat of death or great bodily harm. There is no time for gradations of response within that structure. If someone is threatening to kill you and has the apparent means to do it in that moment, your response has to be to kill them, not to try Kung Fu moves or tasers, shoot them in the leg, etc. Hopefully Biden listens to the experts on that down the line.
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You are correct--there has been many a person killed by someone who was already wounded but not down. Policeman want to be able to go home at night also.
 
#40
#40
LIVE Protests Day 159
1 day until Election Day

Welcome to eve of Hell on Earth.

Vegas Odds for Biggest ****hole 2020
Portland: 1-1
Seattle: 3-1
Philly: 4-1
L.A: 5-1
Chicago: 6-1
NYC: 6-1
Denver: 6-1
Washington DC: 6-1
Louisville: 10-1
Minneapolis: 15-1
Rochester: 15-1
SF: 20-1
Oakland: 20-1
Detroit: 35-1
Pittsburgh: 40-1
Austin: 45-1
Baltimore: 45-1
Milwaukee: 50-1
 
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