The Program....

[DC Vol]

I think this current staff is looking at a C by 2016.

If we make some big moves in staff (i.e. the guys who didn't come with Jones) we could be looking at D by 2016/2017 but this staff has to keep recruiting as they are and have good coaching to progress the recruits.

Otherwise they'll just be what Fulmer was from 2002-2008. Filled with great talent but poor coaching and mediocre results. SECCG loss every couple of years and a 10-win season. Not enough to be a legit powerhouse program.

 

[Ducreux]

Typically change between the options listed happens slowly if at all...think bout it...if you heard the names of a random list of schools, no matter who the schools were I think you would tend to to attach one descriptor not multiples to that school...there are exceptions of course....

What do you think when you hear:

Alabama
North Carolina
Illinois
Iowa
USC(w)
Kentucky

Some exceptions of schools that slowly changed and remained different than they were previously include:

Nebraska
Florida
Army

If we fail to return to prominence under coach Jones for whatever reason or fault I have concern that we will not be 'who we once were' for a very long time......being a middle of the road or worse will became the standard....so that makes his success all the more important

 

[DC Vol]

Typically change between the options listed happens slowly if at all...think bout it...if you heard the names of a random list of schools, no matter who the schools were I think you would tend to to attach one descriptor not multiples to that school...there are exceptions of course....

What do you think when you hear:

Alabama
North Carolina
Illinois
Iowa
USC(w)
Kentucky

Some exceptions of schools that slowly changed and remained different than they were previously include:

Nebraska
Florida
Army

If we fail to return to prominence under coach Jones for whatever reason or fault I have concern that we will not be 'who we once were' for a very long time......being a middle of the road or worse will became the standard....so that makes his success all the more important

I don't agree.

When UT hired Kiffin:

It was lacking talent. Facilities were old. It had lost luster. Bama made a huge hire. Florida is on top of the world. Georgia is a legit threat. Not a great OOC schedule.

When UT hired Dooley:

It was lacking talent, facilities were old and the school was under scrutiny from the NCAA. That would ward off potential suitors due to them not knowing if UT was going to be in Miami-esque waters.

When UT hired Jones:

Worst talent of the 3 hires to inherit. Absolutely atrocious depth at most positions. Facilities had just been fully renovated and are now among the nations best (if not newest and most expensive). UT has cleared the NCAA scrutiny but is under APR issues. Murders row of 1st year schedule and has to deal with Bama, Florida, USC, Georgia every year and a pretty brutal OOC schedule for the next couple of years.

IF Jones recruits well but doesn't succeed on the field and is fired after the 2017 season:

UT will, for the first time in a long time have a roster worthy of catching the eye of a top-end coach. ATC will still be pretty new and top of the line. Neyland will have finished the full renovations (IIRC). There shouldn't be any NCAA or APR issues. Hopefully Saban will be gone from Bama which will make the schedule a bit easier to sell.

Overall, even if Jones doesn't work out, he'll leave the program in better shape than he found it and the best shape it will be in for a new coach since Fulmer took over.

If Jones doesn't work out and if he continues recruiting well UT could have a very quick ascension with a good coaching hire.

 

[GrowVol]

what was the question again? J/k
Its darn near impossible for me to be positive about the program after getting beat by Vandy in our house and not going to a bowl game. We are recruiting great,so? I believe in staying positive but its getting old HAVING to took for things about the program to be positive about.
CBJ will turn the program around(7-5 at least), our i'll hope Dave Hart sends him back to a weaker conference. Reasons and excuses only go so far, heck, I m generally referred to as a sunshine pumper.???

 

[jayski]

This team will look a 100% faster and stronger next year. I still contend that this years team was to poorly conditioned for the CBJ fast paced offense. They were clearly out of gas by the Mo game. We're headed for the top third.

 

[ZZ13]

For the last 60 years we are on average a 7-5 / 8-4 program with occasional spikes of double digit wins and occasional sub .500 stretches. Enjoy the spikes when they occur because the math since Neyland left doesn't add up to being a perennial elite program that most of us want to think we are. We rather infrequently even win the SEC unconditionally.

Right now we are in a dip. I expect Jones to get us back to a Majors 1980s second/third tier annual bowl appearance. I don't expect many double digit win seasons for the next 20 years.

 

[DaddyChad]

It's cyclical as others have said and we're about due for option D.

 

[knoxvols11]

Its cyclical. Believe it or not, there was a time in the late 90s and early 2000s that Bama and LSU were very average. In fact, there was a stretch in the 90s where LSU was downright bad. As were powerhouses USC and Oklahoma. Nebraska was dominant then, and now they are only slightly above average. So, to answer your question, we are in a down cycle and are at best an average to bad football team. But we've been that way for about as long as those teams mentioned above were bad in the 90s, so I believe our time has come to trend back up. By 2015 I think we will start to be a conference contender year in year out. Jmo.

Yeah but those schools you just mentioned have more instate talent and more to offer to keep them instate.

 

[rocknrick]

The only team in the SEC with a lock on their spot is Kensucky they will always be the bottom. The other teams all have their day in the sun and boy are we over due our turn.

 

[Catbone]

A right now. It is what it is.

 

[DarthGrim]

The only way we return to prominence is through recruiting. If we continue with the current trend UT will have the talent and (critically) the depth needed to compete year in and out. When you look at all of the teams that are consistently successful the common denominator is top 10-15 recruiting classes every year. If you look at the point the trend started downward it coincided with a drop off in recruiting talent. We have the tradition, facilities, and brand to attract top talent we just need stability and a commitment to the effort needed to get the talent here and keep it. If that happens we are a D in 5 years. If not..........

 

[#1n51&98]

This is the best thread i've read on here in a long time !! Thanks op : )

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

We're not middle of the pack. We haven't been 4-4 in conference play since 2009. We're not headed to the bottom third, we're already deeply entrenched there with very little chance of breaking out next year. Any hopes we have of improvement are predicated on whether BJ will be able to recruit a top 10 class in 2015 after what will probably be a 6 or 7 loss 2014 season. Not much to hang one's hat on.

Right now I see us about where Ole Miss was in the late 70s getting close to a decade from John Vaught's last stroll on the sidelines with losing seasons having become the norm.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

For the last 60 years we are on average a 7-5 / 8-4 program with occasional spikes of double digit wins and occasional sub .500 stretches. Enjoy the spikes when they occur because the math since Neyland left doesn't add up to being a perennial elite program that most of us want to think we are. We rather infrequently even win the SEC unconditionally.

Right now we are in a dip. I expect Jones to get us back to a Majors 1980s second/third tier annual bowl appearance. I don't expect many double digit win seasons for the next 20 years.

we already plowed this ground. Vol fans can reasonably expect 2 sec championships per decade assuming that the people in charge care about winning. Maybe with expansion, the championship game format and the likelihood of 9 conference games per season you could reasonably modify that to 1 sec championship per decade with an additional BCS level bowl appearance or 2 as well. Also, we should be pretty much camped in the top 25 at least 75% of the time. Any coach who can't get us to that level shouldn't be here.

 

[immyaxl]

I'm a 1974 UTK grad...longtime season ticket holder in football, mens and womens bb...active in supporting both athletic and academic endeavors.....yet I think I'm objective and fair and not a homer...but that'ss not the question...not individuall sports teams or coaches rather where do you think our program stands....realistically..

As someone who has used data mining in business for years I understand trends....natural and predictable variation....highs and lows...of course I also understand that sometimes a process/business/athletic program changes and those changes are the new paradigm, a new 'center', a new reality....maybe not forever but much longer and different than normal variation...

So where do you think we are....not what do others think...not what do you 'hope' for...what do you think we are or will soon become? For the purpose of this discussion it might be able to analyze the individual sport, IE football rather than the entire program:

A are we a middle of the pack football team/program....a 500 team who will often flirt with winning seasons

B are we headed to the lower 3rd of the pack....

C are we headed back to the top third where we have traditionally been

D are we going to the top.....year in and year out # 1 or 2 in the conference...

Right now you're an A. If you're coach lives up to the hype Vols fans have placed on him then a C.

 

[immyaxl]

Its cyclical. Believe it or not, there was a time in the late 90s and early 2000s that Bama and LSU were very average. In fact, there was a stretch in the 90s where LSU was downright bad. As were powerhouses USC and Oklahoma. Nebraska was dominant then, and now they are only slightly above average. So, to answer your question, we are in a down cycle and are at best an average to bad football team. But we've been that way for about as long as those teams mentioned above were bad in the 90s, so I believe our time has come to trend back up. By 2015 I think we will start to be a conference contender year in year out. Jmo.

Even in Bama's and LSU's bad years they were still going to bowl games.

 

[KBVol]

Even in Bama's and LSU's bad years they were still going to bowl games.

You sure about that?
Bama, 1997.... 4-7, no bowl
2000.....3-8, no bowl
2003.....4 wins, no bowl

LSU, 1990-1999..... 10 seasons, 3 bowls appearances.

LSU, Worst season since 2000 has been 8-5 a few times (which by the way is historically and presently a GREAT season for Vandy) which has obviously qualified them for a bowl game

 

[butchna]

You sure about that?
Bama, 1997.... 4-7, no bowl
2000.....3-8, no bowl
2003.....4 wins, no bowl

LSU, 1990-1999..... 10 seasons, 3 bowls appearances.

LSU, Worst season since 2000 has been 8-5 a few times (which by the way is historically and presently a GREAT season for Vandy) which has obviously qualified them for a bowl game

Don't confuse him KB...facts be scary
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[KBVol]

Don't confuse him KB...facts be scary
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Football facts still obviously confuse Vandy people Butch .... it's all shiny and new to these guys. Still, google was available to him before making that ignorant, dare I say stupid assertion.... it's just not true.

 

[Advol]

I'm a 1974 UTK grad...longtime season ticket holder in football, mens and womens bb...active in supporting both athletic and academic endeavors.....yet I think I'm objective and fair and not a homer...but that'ss not the question...not individuall sports teams or coaches rather where do you think our program stands....realistically..

As someone who has used data mining in business for years I understand trends....natural and predictable variation....highs and lows...of course I also understand that sometimes a process/business/athletic program changes and those changes are the new paradigm, a new 'center', a new reality....maybe not forever but much longer and different than normal variation...

So where do you think we are....not what do others think...not what do you 'hope' for...what do you think we are or will soon become? For the purpose of this discussion it might be able to analyze the individual sport, IE football rather than the entire program:

A are we a middle of the pack football team/program....a 500 team who will often flirt with winning seasons

B are we headed to the lower 3rd of the pack....

C are we headed back to the top third where we have traditionally been

D are we going to the top.....year in and year out # 1 or 2 in the conference...

I always love threads that start out telling me how great a fan the are!! Like that gives your words more meaning??

We are What we ARE!! That's it. That's the list. We will either get better in a couple years or fire yet another Coach and move on!! Pretty simple really!! :loco:

 

[Ducreux]

This is the best thread i've read on here in a long time !! Thanks op : )

Thanks son, oops I mean sir I appreciate it...

 

[Ducreux]

I always love threads that start out telling me how great a fan the are!! Like that gives your words more meaning??

We are What we ARE!! That's it. That's the list. We will either get better in a couple years or fire yet another Coach and move on!! Pretty simple really!! :loco:

I never said I was, in fact many on here probably don't consider me a fan at all...I was just attempting o give some perspective....

I don't wear orange, I don't stand in my seat/chair, I don't stand the entire game, don't woo, don't lust over 18 year old H.S. boys in tight pants, and although I have tickets if its a pretty fall day I might hike in the mountains or boat on Norris and listen to the game on the radio.....in addition it wouldn't bother me to see academics stressed more....

I DO however love the University of Tennessee and support it with money, my actions and service..

I hope this helps...

 

[LWSVOL]

I'm a 1974 UTK grad...longtime season ticket holder in football, mens and womens bb...active in supporting both athletic and academic endeavors.....yet I think I'm objective and fair and not a homer...but that'ss not the question...not individuall sports teams or coaches rather where do you think our program stands....realistically..

As someone who has used data mining in business for years I understand trends....natural and predictable variation....highs and lows...of course I also understand that sometimes a process/business/athletic program changes and those changes are the new paradigm, a new 'center', a new reality....maybe not forever but much longer and different than normal variation...

So where do you think we are....not what do others think...not what do you 'hope' for...what do you think we are or will soon become? For the purpose of this discussion it might be able to analyze the individual sport, IE football rather than the entire program:

A are we a middle of the pack football team/program....a 500 team who will often flirt with winning seasons

B are we headed to the lower 3rd of the pack....

C are we headed back to the top third where we have traditionally been

D are we going to the top.....year in and year out # 1 or 2 in the conference...

Football will get back to C. that is very doable for this program and like you say, where we have been.

We are actually in B now and have been for a few years.

D was the 90s which was an anomaly timeframe for this conference. that timeframe was really not the norm and I would not predict getting back to that time. As has been stated more than once, Tennessee was the last team to win back to back SEC Championships. So that tells you how competitive this conference is.