The Real Problem

#26
#26
McKinsey is a service company and they create tremendous wealth. Entire point is just anoter chance to regurgitate sweeping themes and fantasyland silliness that dont remotely apply.
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#27
#27
utgibbs said:
Without Communist China, world poverty as a whole has increased, .
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As late as 20 years ago "Communist China" could not feed its own people. Since they began reforms toward a market like economy, they've boomed. As they have become more like us(or at least like we were before the Progressive Era got into full swing)... they have become wealthier. As we have become more like them... we have become more indebted and unstable.
 
#28
#28
nbakerld said:
Yes they are. Any service people willfully pay for (that isn't required by law) increases wealth. If it didn't make your life more convenient or increase your standard of living in some way, there's no reason for you to employ them. You employ them because they are able to create value for you.
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So tax accountants do create wealth?
 
#31
#31
rjd970 said:
So tax accountants do create wealth?
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Kind of. They are just helping you comply with the law (and I already made a disclaimer for services we are required to purchase from the government). They make it easier for you to comply with the law, thus improving your standard of living. That's not to say your standard of living wouldn't be higher in the absence of the law. We just gotta play the hand we are dealt.
 
#32
#32
I think nbakerld covered the tax accountant when he mentioned things you are forced to do. The force in that particular case is indirect... but still force.

FTR, I would say real wealth production (farming, mining, manufacturing, invention) is a bigger problem right now than what we've been discussing... services and transfers. We've been out of balance for years.
 
#33
#33
sjt, do you think that Americans would make a shift in their buying habits to 'buy American' like we used to? If they can buy something at Walmart (made in China), will they pay more for something made in America?
 
#35
#35
Thought thread would be about gays, minorities, evolution, and birth control.
 
#36
#36
utgibbs said:
Quite untrue.

We have more than enough productive capacity, and we have more than enough wealth for everybody to live in health and dignity.

We largely agree on consumption, although for completely different reasons, I'm sure.

What we need to do is redefine work, economic rationality, and real wealth.
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I know I'm not as smart as you, but isn't there a difference between capacity and output?

Is the right to dignity in the constitution?

Work, economic rationality and real wealth are being redefined by the unworking poor who keep electing people who will keep paying their cell phone bills.
 
#37
#37
Daddy Gee said:
sjt, do you think that Americans would make a shift in their buying habits to 'buy American' like we used to? If they can buy something at Walmart (made in China), will they pay more for something made in America?
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Highly doubt it. Chinese products are rapidly increasing in quality, while slowly increasing in cost. I've stopped looking for anything "Made in America." Soon, companies will be sending work to the other Asian countries where they can pay even less since labor wage demands are increasing in China.
 
#38
#38
Daddy Gee said:
sjt, do you think that Americans would make a shift in their buying habits to 'buy American' like we used to? If they can buy something at Walmart (made in China), will they pay more for something made in America?
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I'm not SJT but my view is not many people really care about "made in America" any more. Especially the corporations who get parts made where they can be made at the best cost and at the level of quality the market demands. Take cars, how many parts are made overseas? They may be assembled here, but they aren't made here.

I work in a Vaccine plant. FDA says to sell it here it has to be made here. The divided manufacturing into stages, stage 1 it gets made and put into syringes, stage 2 the syringes get labels, inspected and packaged. Your flu shot is made in Belgium and then made again in Pennsylvania.
 
#39
#39
VOLatile said:
Highly doubt it. Chinese products are rapidly increasing in quality, while slowly increasing in cost. I've stopped looking for anything "Made in America." Soon, companies will be sending work to the other Asian countries where they can pay even less since labor wage demands are increasing in China.
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The other thing is these things go in cycles. We had the same beef with Japan and then Korea, then things leveled off. Explore the history of Radio City Music Hall as an example.
 
#40
#40
Daddy Gee said:
sjt, do you think that Americans would make a shift in their buying habits to 'buy American' like we used to? If they can buy something at Walmart (made in China), will they pay more for something made in America?
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I still do. Whenever I'm looking at something, I'll check out all the options at whatever store I'm at and see if I can find it made in America.
 
#41
#41
Daddy Gee said:
sjt, do you think that Americans would make a shift in their buying habits to 'buy American' like we used to? If they can buy something at Walmart (made in China), will they pay more for something made in America?
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Americans would buy American if it were cheaper. With regulation, minimum wage, unionization of labor, etc. we've pretty much guaranteed that manufacturing jobs go elsewhere because it inevitably costs more to produce here.
 
#42
#42
nbakerld said:
Americans would buy American if it were cheaper. With regulation, minimum wage, unionization of labor, etc. we've pretty much guaranteed that manufacturing jobs go elsewhere because it inevitably costs more to produce here.
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this. i. hate. unions.
 
#43
#43
Just make everything with robots, then you can say it's made in America and don't have to worry about lazy SOBs with an entitlement complex.
 
#45
#45
Daddy Gee said:
sjt, do you think that Americans would make a shift in their buying habits to 'buy American' like we used to? If they can buy something at Walmart (made in China), will they pay more for something made in America?
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No. I think we have to do some things to help that. We need a "fair" trade policy as opposed to "free" trade policy. Nations that effectively use slave labor or with very loose environmental laws should face tariffs to level the playing field. At the same time, significant reform needs to take place in our country with regard to regulation, taxes, unions, labor law generally, immigration (more, not less), etc.

Unlike the false promises of Obama, there needs to be REAL and significant infrastructure investment. We have a pathetically poor rail freight system for instance. Rail freight is both cheaper and more environmentally friendly than truck freight. On the flip side, we need to ignore environmental nitpicking and dredge more of our waterways to make them navigable for barges.

In the short run, we need to "drill here, drill now" to bring energy and transportation costs down.

The last really obvious thing is that we need a plentiful source of clean power. The only realistic option is nuclear.
 
#46
#46
kptvol said:
Can the robots be made in Singapore?
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Of course... but it is a playing field leveler. The next question would be "Can robots in Singapore get product to American markets cheaper than robots in Soddy Daisy?"
 
#47
#47
nbakerld said:
Americans would buy American if it were cheaper. With regulation, minimum wage, unionization of labor, etc. we've pretty much guaranteed that manufacturing jobs go elsewhere because it inevitably costs more to produce here.
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I think people could be convinced if it were close in cost and quality.
 
#48
#48
Obama: "Everyone is going to have to chip in. It's only fair."

Followed and preceded by a speech that focused solely on corporations and the rich not paying enough.
 
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