The Republican Party Today

[McDad]

So you would only restrict voting in these five states? (states with no general statewide sales tax: Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon.)

No.

 

[luthervol]

No.

But doesn't everyone else pay sales tax?
And even those in the five states listed actually pay sales tax.

 

[luthervol]

Oh ****. There are 5 states without sales tax. Did not know that.

Most of them have local option sales tax. A couple also have a restaurant/hotel tax. One has a small tax on the gross revenue of companies, which is obviously a sales tax that is passed to the consumer.

 

[RockyTop85]

I could see an additional requirement dictating not incarcerated. But I would want all who served their time to have their right to vote fully restored so long as they met the other stipulations.

Incarcerated misdemeanants and pre-trial (not subject to active felony judgment) inmates should have the option to vote.

Also the issue of punitive fines, court costs, the order in which clerks apply monies to those debts should be addressed. (See e.g. the debacle in Florida).

But I was talking about John Doe, who is 18, was born in Oregon, lives with mom and hypothetically has never paid any taxes, doesn’t own property, never served in the military, and has never made any act or declaration that could be viewed as consenting to be governed by the laws of Oregon. If he goes out and drives a car with an expired tag he’s subject to citation. I think John should have to comply with Oregon law, but given that he should (and does) have to comply, I don’t agree that John shouldn’t have a vote.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

After the last 6 and especially after the last 2 presidential elections I really can't understand how anyone thinks more people voting is a good idea.

That pesky constitution

 

[luthervol]

Incarcerated misdemeanants and pre-trial (not subject to active felony judgment) inmates should have the option to vote.

Also the issue of punitive fines, court costs, the order in which clerks apply monies to those debts should be addressed. (See e.g. the debacle in Florida).

But I was talking about John Doe, who is 18, was born in Oregon, lives with mom and hypothetically has never paid any taxes, doesn’t own property, never served in the military, and has never made any act or declaration that could be viewed as consenting to be governed by the laws of Oregon. If he goes out and drives a car with an expired tag he’s subject to citation. I think John should have to comply with Oregon law, but given that he should (and does) have to comply, I don’t agree that John shouldn’t have a vote.

If John has a bicycle, he's good. Oregon has a $15 bicycle tax.

 

[McDad]

Incarcerated misdemeanants and pre-trial (not subject to active felony judgment) inmates should have the option to vote.

Also the issue of punitive fines, court costs, the order in which clerks apply monies to those debts should be addressed. (See e.g. the debacle in Florida).

But I was talking about John Doe, who is 18, was born in Oregon, lives with mom and hypothetically has never paid any taxes, doesn’t own property, never served in the military, and has never made any act or declaration that could be viewed as consenting to be governed by the laws of Oregon. If he goes out and drives a car with an expired tag he’s subject to citation. I think John should have to comply with Oregon law, but given that he should (and does) have to comply, I don’t agree that John shouldn’t have a vote.

You disagreement about John is of no concern to me. As an example, vacationers from other countries are subject to our laws when they vacation in America and they have no vote. If John Doe is sufficiently motivated to have a voice, John Doe is motivated enough to pay taxes, or serve, or own real property.

 

[GroverCleveland]

I’m talking about how we’re nearly 100 years removed from FDR and there’s still a supermajority of people earning enough to pay taxes and you’re over here whining about the political power of a minority of the remainder who live off the government.

Petulant hyperbole is not persuasive.

Thought you would have learned that by now.

 

[RockyTop85]

Most of them have local option sales tax. A couple also have a restaurant/hotel tax. One has a small tax on the gross revenue of companies, which is obviously a sales tax that is passed to the consumer.

Yeah, I’m honestly not sure that “go find a way to pay a penny of tax” is a barrier that I’m uncomfortable with, in theory. I don’t think I would be too worried that states would try to restrict opportunities to pay taxes so as to disenfranchise people, which seems like the biggest concern.

 

[hog88]

That pesky constitution

What about it? Want to point out the section that defines the right to vote shall not be infringed or where in the constitution it says Americans have an explicit right to vote?

 

[McDad]

Yeah, I’m honestly not sure that “go find a way to pay a penny of tax” is a barrier that I’m uncomfortable with, in theory. I don’t think I would be too worried that states would try to restrict opportunities to pay taxes so as to disenfranchise people, which seems like the biggest concern.

Luther's penchant for poor premises is in play. I am not seeking to restrict voting. I am seeking to ensure all who vote have "skin in the game". If a state decides bicycle tax or whatever meets the threshold, I am fine with it. The state should be setting the standards.
But just because someone meets the standards for the state, does not necessarily mean they meet the standards for city, county, and national voting.

 

[GroverCleveland]

What about it? Want to point out the section that defines the right to vote shall not be infringed or where in the constitution it says Americans have an explicit right to vote?

Wouldn't that be something covered by the 10th?

 

[clarksvol00]

You disagreement about John is of no concern to me. As an example, vacationers from other countries are subject to our laws when they vacation in America and they have no vote. If John Doe is sufficiently motivated to have a voice, John Doe is motivated enough to pay taxes, or serve, or own real property.

Pay taxes OR own land seems like a pretty obvious way to keep poor people from voting while making a loophole for rich people who use the tax code to their advantage to continue voting.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Focused on the Federal Level what about the State Level?

The LGBTQ or whatever movement has moved the stick way to far beyond the measuring Stick, kind of like give them an inch and they are trying to push the agenda to a foot and beyond.
We more than likely will not address Guns for another year.
Teacher's pay and many are headed to the job market.
TCAP and Education in this state is a joke and will not be fixed by either party but leadership is needed and is lacking.
Sexual Harassments in Legislature seems to be a problem
Lack of Leaders in both parties, again.
Dems are clueless in some cases but trying to have a MLK moment with Guns is ridiculous.
Reps have proven that they are incompetent as well as the Democrats and are united in doing so.
House Speaker appoints a conspiracist, educationally unqualified individual to develop social study standards and Curriculum for the state school systems.

Your taxpayers dollars at work.

 

[hog88]

Wouldn't that be something covered by the 10th?

Pretty much.

 

[hog88]

Luther's penchant for poor premises is in play. I am not seeking to restrict voting. I am seeking to ensure all who vote have "skin in the game". If a state decides bicycle tax or whatever meets the threshold, I am fine with it. The state should be setting the standards.
But just because someone meets the standards for the state, does not necessarily mean they meet the standards for city, county, and national voting.

BUT! Each state is supposed to run its own elections and set the standards for who can vote so even in national elections the state would control the standards.

 

[GAVol]

BUT! Each state is supposed to run its own elections and set the standards for who can vote so even in national elections the state would control the standards.

Exactly . . . There's really no such thing as a Federal election.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Oh ****. There are 5 states without sales tax. Did not know that.

They do have federal sales tax and one would think that some counties in the state have county sales taxes as well. Nevada, New Hampshire, Montana, Alaska, and Delaware

8 states have no state income tax Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, & Wyoming

 

[LouderVol]

Tons of BS in that so I will not attempt to address it all.
So you think suburban women, educated people, and government employees vote incorrectly? Interesting.
I think it all boils down to you not liking where compromise and progress leads.
Plus, the nation was most definitely founded on compromise and progress.

the compromise was between states, and it was in the guaranteeing of individual rights, not government powers.

and the progress wasn't left vs right. As Rocky pointed out, it was the other political axis that they made "progress" on. We got less authoritarian leaving the British, not less "conservative" or less "progressive". I think making that same progress of being less authoritarian would help a lot with the perceived issues of left vs right in the country now.

 

[RockyTop85]

You disagreement about John is of no concern to me. As an example, vacationers from other countries are subject to our laws when they vacation in America and they have no vote. If John Doe is sufficiently motivated to have a voice, John Doe is motivated enough to pay taxes, or serve, or own real property.

Choosing to vacation is an act of consent to the laws of the destination. Hypothetical John hasn’t consented. He was just born there.

I don’t mind requiring an de minimus affirmative act to exercise the right to vote (registering, driving to the poll, etc. etc.) but requiring an affirmative act to obtain the right to vote really bothers me in the same way that having a discretionary process for obtaining a license to carry a firearm concerned the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association.

Like I said to Luther, if the amount of the qualifying tax is capped, I’m not sure that I can hypothesize a concerning abuse and I’m not sure there would be more Hypothetical Johns than there would be self-sufficient squatters. I’m also not convinced that there isn’t a point at which the marginal cost of additional steps approaching universal suffrage outweighs the benefit.

However, I do see universal consent or the governed as optimal, and not entirely willing to accept that my inability to hypothesize problems is conclusive.

Given that, I don’t see this as an improvement over the current model because it seems to only (if modestly) shrink the franchise. But I’m willing to concede that it’s not extreme.

 

[hog88]

They do have federal sales tax and one would think that some counties in the state have county sales taxes as well. Nevada, New Hampshire, Montana, Alaska, and Delaware

8 states have no state income tax Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, & Wyoming

Federal sales tax?

 

[RockyTop85]

Thought you would have learned that by now.

I have and was happy to pass that wisdom along to you.

 

[RockyTop85]

Luther's penchant for poor premises is in play. I am not seeking to restrict voting. I am seeking to ensure all who vote have "skin in the game". If a state decides bicycle tax or whatever meets the threshold, I am fine with it. The state should be setting the standards.
But just because someone meets the standards for the state, does not necessarily mean they meet the standards for city, county, and national voting.

If the state rather than constitution gets to decide what taxes or amounts qualify, then I’m out and retract my prior concessions. That’s effectively establishing a dictatorial regime.

Being subject to loss of life, liberty, or property is sufficient “skin in the game” to require consent.

 

[hog88]

There is no explicit right to vote in the constitution. There are just limits on why a person can be barred from voting.

Does the Constitution Guarantee a Right to Vote? The Answer May Surprise You.

 

[TN Ribs]

Not everything farmed is subsidized, most vegetables are unsubsidized and are sold at market value which is why most of them fluctuate dramatically in price. They are dependent upon the weather or a natural disaster. The reason the price of milk, eggs, and bread remain relatively stable is because most people rely on them and if a bad drought or low harvest occurred many people would starve. Farmers have would have no incentive to grow corn or wheat if not given heavy subsidies because corn and wheat are extremely susceptible to heat/drought. Those same farmers could make significantly more money raising cattle or hogs. It's a double edged sword because we couldn't raise cows, pigs, sheep, or chickens without corn and wheat.

GMO seeds have made them both less susceptible to heat/drought, GMO seeds have also increased yields dramatically.