The Road To Hoover

[Titan05]

Why do they suck so badly? I just don't get it. I understand the injuries. But they suck and it's mind boggling.....

Living in Nashville, I love how they took the series against Vandie. That kinda makes their year that has been full of suckassness

Some improvement but simply not enough.

Sadly, that series will prove to be the highlight of the entire season.

 

[feathersax]

Chances of Vols getting to Hoover not good, but "it ain't over till it's over" (thanks, Yogi)! Meanwhile, my wife & I will be there wearing BIG ORANGE as always. :clapping:

 

[LA vol7]

I would fire CDS today! I've been a Dave Serrano supporter, but this past weekend was pathetic! Team showed no heart against a cellar dweller in the SEC East. You beat Vandy than you go to MO and get your butt handed to you when a series win would have almost assured Tennessee of getting to Hoover. Now, remember, we aren't talking about a regional birth, we are talking about our own conference tournament!!! We can't even make it to our own conference tournament! Kentucky for crying our loud can recruit to Lexington, Vandy can recruit to Nashville, Arkansas can recruit to their pathetic location and university, and we can't recruit to Knoxville! It is just ridiculous! Go get Delmonico back! He was way better than this. I'm sick of it!

 

[Hulk]

If they play like they did against Vanderbilt, they stand a chance but being swept by Missouri hurt their chances.

 

[ShowmeVols]

BTW, I agree that we ought to be able to take the UGA series.

Georgia is a case study in the unreliability of RPI. They are rewarded for having the #1 SoS, so they are about 50 slots above us, mainly for getting beat by real good teams.

They have a series win over SC as their signature win, but they had the good fortune to get swept on the road by Vandy and aTm, so those don't hurt their RPI. They took one of three from Florida on the road, so that helps their RPI.

The non-politicized power rankings agree with how inflated their RPI is. Our Nolan Power Index is better than theirs, and their Boyd's World ISR is only a little better than ours.

Nothing about their body of work says we can't hang with them.

 

[lovavol]

swept by UF, lsu, and UGA tkes at least 2,

 

[RollerVol]

GO BIG ORANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...All the way to Hoover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rock:

 

[Backwards K]

Vols just have to win out to reach .500 in SEC play.......it could happen! :rock:

 

[DeepSpringsVol]

Personally I expect to be swept by Florida & LSU then 2/3 we win from Georgia. Our hole is so big to get out of and only 1 series probable win.

 

[orangemadam]

The Vols seem to play better as the underdog and with a chip on their shoulders. It really seems to take the pressure off them. Unless they have thrown in the towel, I think they are very capable of giving UF a fight next weekend.

:shakehead::shakehead::shakehead:

moral victory?

Giving them a fight won't cut it.

 

[Mike Rapp]

CDS's teams have not finished well during his tenure here, even including last year's season ending sweep of MSU.

Overall, for the last three weekends of the season, CDS teams have won a total of two series in four years, getting swept 3 weekends, losing five others, and having two shortened by weather (1-1 and 0-1). Total conference record for the final 3 weekends of his seasons here is 11-22.

His conference record in the second half of the conference schedule is 18-44. He has won a total of four second-half series, been swept 8 times, and lost 7 other series.

The numbers don't support the theory that they play better with their backs to the wall.

Going 4-5 down the stretch would be refreshingly uncharacteristic.

It's pretty simple, really. Regardless of how you hit in this league, if you don't have truly elite pitching you are going to lose more than you win. And for quite some time now, UT has not had pitchers on par with the rest of the league.

How many sec teams use two starters to win one game, and after losing the first game then try to do the same the next night? With the same second starter?

As the season progresses, every team loses players to injury, so if you have a thin bullpen you are going to be trotting guys out there in late inning one run games, against teams with awesome coaching, who can't hit 85 on the radar gun. In the sec you are just rolling the dice versus guys who starred in the cape league and are a month away from getting a million in the draft.

For whatever reasons, neither Raleigh nor Serrano have been able to sign or develop sec level pitching. It's as simple as that.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

To add to Mike's post I don't understand why Serrano keeps signing these guys that throw low to mid eighties..... I know we have kyle who can run it up there but if you look at most of the highly ranked teams especially in the sec they have multiple guys that can hit mid ninties

 

[sport3500]

If UT can sweep Georgia and take 1 game against LSU and Florida, I think they are in the SEC Tournament.

 

[vol66]

To add to Mike's post I don't understand why Serrano keeps signing these guys that throw low to mid eighties..... I know we have kyle who can run it up there but if you look at most of the highly ranked teams especially in the sec they have multiple guys that can hit mid ninties

I don't know if it's as easy as some people think. First, you start recruiting these guys as freshmen in high school. You have to project which kids will develop into the 90's while keeping them from the draft. Which means you hope they don't develop it before they are draft eligible, because if a kid is into the low 90's by his junior year of high school, it's a tough get.

Kevin Steen, signed in the 9th round in 2014, Garrett Davila signed in the fourth last year...

I also think CDS has a philosophy regarding pitching, putting the ball in play over strikeouts...I'm not sure that philosophy will work in this league. That, however, probably plays into recruiting as well.

Then there's the whole issue of kids using their offer as leverage, telling the coaches one thing and doing another. For instance, I've wondered in both the cases mentioned above if either of them wanted to go to college at all.

Another thing. I think it's honorable to take care of the players, but my feeling is that we aren't ready coming out of the gate. It takes a long time to figure out who is in what role...we didn't figure things out this year until mid-way through the SEC slate. Some of it is giving upperclassmen a real shot, which is fine but then the midweek game should be for the young guys...win or lose. Unfortunately, we are in such a hole starting the season, that we can't afford to lose a midweek game. I think that it not only shows in the pitching, but our hitting has gone south, especially power numbers and it's because nobody gets a day off. Which in turns doesn't allow some of the younger guys to develop as they should.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

I don't know if it's as easy as some people think. First, you start recruiting these guys as freshmen in high school. You have to project which kids will develop into the 90's while keeping them from the draft. Which means you hope they don't develop it before they are draft eligible, because if a kid is into the low 90's by his junior year of high school, it's a tough get.

Kevin Steen, signed in the 9th round in 2014, Garrett Davila signed in the fourth last year...

I also think CDS has a philosophy regarding pitching, putting the ball in play over strikeouts...I'm not sure that philosophy will work in this league. That, however, probably plays into recruiting as well.

Then there's the whole issue of kids using their offer as leverage, telling the coaches one thing and doing another. For instance, I've wondered in both the cases mentioned above if either of them wanted to go to college at all.

Another thing. I think it's honorable to take care of the players, but my feeling is that we aren't ready coming out of the gate. It takes a long time to figure out who is in what role...we didn't figure things out this year until mid-way through the SEC slate. Some of it is giving upperclassmen a real shot, which is fine but then the midweek game should be for the young guys...win or lose. Unfortunately, we are in such a hole starting the season, that we can't afford to lose a midweek game. I think that it not only shows in the pitching, but our hitting has gone south, especially power numbers and it's because nobody gets a day off. Which in turns doesn't allow some of the younger guys to develop as they should.

I get what your saying and understand its just frustrating seeing us roll guys out there throwing 88 having to rely on an inconstant off speed pitch vs our opponents bring in guys throwing 93 plus that just blow us away.

I had heard that about Serrano's philosophy before and it truly is the case then I understand why our pitchers are getting shelled. The hitters in this league are just too good to pitch to contact.

I agree with your last point about letting the younger guys get their shot in the mid week games. Look at vandy for that matter they lost to MTSU but they just let their younger guys roll knowing it will help them in the long run.

Since you are they guy in the know with Vol baseball I have two questions if you don't mind.

First with recruiting do we have any hard throwers that we think we have a good chance of getting on campus this cycle?

Second, what is the word on Serrano? I'm guessing making a regional without us winning the possible is a very slim probability, so is getting to the sec tourney enough or is he as good as gone?

 

[vol66]

I don't know how these guys are doing this year in HS ball...We'll probably lose ZL...I don't know who else, but a coaching change might make a tough decision easier...


TN RHP Zach Linginfelter 95 MPH...prolly lose this guy
VA RHP Garrett Stallings 91 MPH
GA RHP Connor Darling 91 MPH
VA LHP Luc Lipcius 83 MPH
TN LHP William Heflin 89 MPH
TN LHP Redmond Walsh 86 MPH
GA RHP Andrew Schultz 96 MPH


On the second question...I've always maintained I thought he had to make a regional because he's made Hoover twice and that wasn't a reason for Hart to extend him.

However, there is also the issue of Kyle...I don't know if that makes a difference. I don't think a program decides long term issues over just a father and son. I know this...recruiting for 17 and 18 is hurting due to this...I know we got Trammell the other day, but we likely get him regardless of who the coach is....

I don't have any inside info, I don't know more than anyone else here, all speculation on my part.

 

[OldTimer]

Problem solved, wear the White "T" uni's over the next 11 games and we go 10-1 or 9-2 and make Hoover and possibly beyond............

 

[mr.checkerboards]

I don't know how these guys are doing this year in HS ball...We'll probably lose ZL...I don't know who else, but a coaching change might make a tough decision easier...


TN RHP Zach Linginfelter 95 MPH...prolly lose this guy
VA RHP Garrett Stallings 91 MPH
GA RHP Connor Darling 91 MPH
VA LHP Luc Lipcius 83 MPH
TN LHP William Heflin 89 MPH
TN LHP Redmond Walsh 86 MPH
GA RHP Andrew Schultz 96 MPH


On the second question...I've always maintained I thought he had to make a regional because he's made Hoover twice and that wasn't a reason for Hart to extend him.

However, there is also the issue of Kyle...I don't know if that makes a difference. I don't think a program decides long term issues over just a father and son. I know this...recruiting for 17 and 18 is hurting due to this...I know we got Trammell the other day, but we likely get him regardless of who the coach is....

I don't have any inside info, I don't know more than anyone else here, all speculation on my part.

First of all thanks for answering my questions. Secondly, that is a little more velocity than we had been seeing. A guy like Lingerfelt throwing 95 is the type of guy that could fix some of the bullpen problems. The Schultz guy that throws 96 do we stand a good chance to get him.

On Serrano I feel like he deserves another year because of the injuries. I know Westpahl got hurt last year, but with how he was pitching at the end of last year and add Serrano to the pen I think things look a lot different then they do. On his contract I know this probably won't happen but I say give him a one year deal with no buy out, and he can leave if he wants or he can stay and try to earn a bigger contract next year.

 

[BruinVol]

First of all thanks for answering my questions. Secondly, that is a little more velocity than we had been seeing. A guy like Lingerfelt throwing 95 is the type of guy that could fix some of the bullpen problems. The Schultz guy that throws 96 do we stand a good chance to get him.

On Serrano I feel like he deserves another year because of the injuries. I know Westpahl got hurt last year, but with how he was pitching at the end of last year and add Serrano to the pen I think things look a lot different then they do. On his contract I know this probably won't happen but I say give him a one year deal with no buy out, and he can leave if he wants or he can stay and try to earn a bigger contract next year.

Schultz has command issues. Likely makes it to campus

Ligenfelter likely gone IMO

 

[vol66]

First of all thanks for answering my questions. Secondly, that is a little more velocity than we had been seeing. A guy like Lingerfelt throwing 95 is the type of guy that could fix some of the bullpen problems. The Schultz guy that throws 96 do we stand a good chance to get him.

On Serrano I feel like he deserves another year because of the injuries. I know Westpahl got hurt last year, but with how he was pitching at the end of last year and add Serrano to the pen I think things look a lot different then they do. On his contract I know this probably won't happen but I say give him a one year deal with no buy out, and he can leave if he wants or he can stay and try to earn a bigger contract next year.

I don't know who we might lose to the draft because I don't really know how they are doing in their senior seasons. I also don't know how many scouts are showing up for their games...

Luc is basically a walk on guy, his twin brother Andrew (SS) is more highly thought of and it was a two fer deal, which is fair to the parents imo and nice of coach to do.

All of the rest, just based on velocity and nothing else could all be lost to the draft. I have no clue how many of those guys want to go to college and how many might be using the offer as leverage. Maybe others here that keep up with HS ball might have info on that.

Another issue I didn't mention...kids that are elite Tennessee pitchers get a Vandy offer and we can't offer what they offer and it's not just the full ride. They have a track record of signing guys that go high coming out of HS and going even higher after 3 years of college. They have a fantastic pitching coach. They are going to play significant post season games, be placed with the best teams in the Cape, USA Baseball etc...

 

[Mike Rapp]

I don't know who we might lose to the draft because I don't really know how they are doing in their senior seasons. I also don't know how many scouts are showing up for their games...

Luc is basically a walk on guy, his twin brother Andrew (SS) is more highly thought of and it was a two fer deal, which is fair to the parents imo and nice of coach to do.

All of the rest, just based on velocity and nothing else could all be lost to the draft. I have no clue how many of those guys want to go to college and how many might be using the offer as leverage. Maybe others here that keep up with HS ball might have info on that.

Another issue I didn't mention...kids that are elite Tennessee pitchers get a Vandy offer and we can't offer what they offer and it's not just the full ride. They have a track record of signing guys that go high coming out of HS and going even higher after 3 years of college. They have a fantastic pitching coach. They are going to play significant post season games, be placed with the best teams in the Cape, USA Baseball etc...

Vandy can sign kids like Kyle Wright and let him develop by pitching in and then starting in midweek games. He was not an elite recruit out of Huntsville. He really became a pitcher as a sophomore, and now he is going to be another first rounder.

Snider and Johnson are not really special talent wise. Neither have mid 90s fast balls. But they have roles that fit their current development and learn by watching what the older guys are doing.

Bowden is a big lefty who really isn't suited to be a starter, so they moved him to closer, and he is shining. But you have to have enough options on the roster to make that move.

My point is, it is more than throwing mid 90s. It is recruiting and developing kids who have specific potential and then working them into their best role. And having the ability to be patient and develop kids.

Chandler Day was elite out of high school and was supposed to be a freshman starter. He has been awful, his mechanics are terrible, and therefore he gets an inning or two to see how he is doing and then sits on the weekends. He may be unhappy with that role, but you don't just get to pitch at Vandy because you can throw mid 90s. And that's why they are such an attraction for kids who have potential.

Serrano has so few guys who can pitch consistently that he is forced to put the same guys out there and push them to their limit. You might argue that some of the starters are sec level, but virtually none of the relievers are developing into eventual starters.

Bottom line is, you can complain about th draft but the draft is a reality for every program. The kids who committed to Florida, LSU, Vandy, USC and Mississippi state that signed a pro contract last year could fill three major league bullpens. Those programs plan to lose those kids, and don't stop recruiting elite guys just because they might sign.

 

[vol66]

Vandy can sign kids like Kyle Wright and let him develop by pitching in and then starting in midweek games. He was not an elite recruit out of Huntsville. He really became a pitcher as a sophomore, and now he is going to be another first rounder.

Snider and Johnson are not really special talent wise. Neither have mid 90s fast balls. But they have roles that fit their current development and learn by watching what the older guys are doing.

Bowden is a big lefty who really isn't suited to be a starter, so they moved him to closer, and he is shining. But you have to have enough options on the roster to make that move.

My point is, it is more than throwing mid 90s. It is recruiting and developing kids who have specific potential and then working them into their best role. And having the ability to be patient and develop kids.

Chandler Day was elite out of high school and was supposed to be a freshman starter. He has been awful, his mechanics are terrible, and therefore he gets an inning or two to see how he is doing and then sits on the weekends. He may be unhappy with that role, but you don't just get to pitch at Vandy because you can throw mid 90s. And that's why they are such an attraction for kids who have potential.

Serrano has so few guys who can pitch consistently that he is forced to put the same guys out there and push them to their limit. You might argue that some of the starters are sec level, but virtually none of the relievers are developing into eventual starters.

Bottom line is, you can complain about th draft but the draft is a reality for every program. The kids who committed to Florida, LSU, Vandy, USC and Mississippi state that signed a pro contract last year could fill three major league bullpens. Those programs plan to lose those kids, and don't stop recruiting elite guys just because they might sign.

I was asked specifically about the pitching in our signing class and the draft. I'm not complaining about the draft. I was even complimentary of Vanderbilt in the process. Quit being so sensitive.

The schools you mention all have long track records, even SC, Holbrook has been there a long time and the program was not in the dumps when he took it over.

It's going to take time at UT, no matter who the coach is and the topics I discussed are realities for whoever the coach is should a change be made.

I think Day looked pretty good last week and I saw Kilichowsi (SP?) at Missouri a year or two ago...said the same thing about him...I like that kid.

 

[Mike Rapp]

I was asked specifically about the pitching in our signing class and the draft. I'm not complaining about the draft. I was even complimentary of Vanderbilt in the process. Quit being so sensitive.

The schools you mention all have long track records, even SC, Holbrook has been there a long time and the program was not in the dumps when he took it over.

It's going to take time at UT, no matter who the coach is and the topics I discussed are realities for whoever the coach is should a change be made.

I think Day looked pretty good last week and I saw Kilichowsi (SP?) at Missouri a year or two ago...said the same thing about him...I like that kid.

I wasn't upset at all, sorry if I sounded defensive.

The problem is, all of the teams I mentioned have long track records and I didn't include Ole Miss or aTm.

Then you have UVa, UNC, Clemson and to a lesser extent NC State, all within easy driving distance of Knoxville. These are all baseball factories who have decades of history developing pitchers. UT has four programs within driving distance that have won national titles in recent history.

Day has been awful, he has hardly even pitched. Something seems wrong with him, maybe he attitude? Don't know, but Raby has become the star of that class. Kilichoswski has been sitting due to a sore arm, but he has huge up side. He is probably going to go to the pros this spring along with Wright, Bowden and Sheffield.

 

[vol66]

I wasn't upset at all, sorry if I sounded defensive.

The problem is, all of the teams I mentioned have long track records and I didn't include Ole Miss or aTm.

Then you have UVa, UNC, Clemson and to a lesser extent NC State, all within easy driving distance of Knoxville. These are all baseball factories who have decades of history developing pitchers. UT has four programs within driving distance that have won national titles in recent history.

Day has been awful, he has hardly even pitched. Something seems wrong with him, maybe he attitude? Don't know, but Raby has become the star of that class. Kilichoswski has been sitting due to a sore arm, but he has huge up side. He is probably going to go to the pros this spring along with Wright, Bowden and Sheffield.

I'm sorry, what is your point?

 

[BruinVol]

Recruiting quality pitching depth is simple economics.


It takes $ to get them to campus. It's all about how far you can make 11.7 go and that is one of the biggest reasons we don't have it