The Sad Story of Elkmont

[Orangedogsrule]

What happens when you get 3rd generation of inbred tree hugger back to wilderness yahoos running the parks. They'd tear up the roads if they could. Only Leave No Trace hikers allowed.

Elkmont and Wonderland should have been National Treasures.

 

[Smallvol#1]

Elkmont and Wonderland should have been National Treasures.

This is what I have often thought. Could have been jewels of the National Parks. So foolishly thrown away.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Exactly. We’ve hiked up there several times. I was told it was a summer “play ground” for people with money, so when they moved out the “mountain folk” from their homes the monied people got to stay for so many years as a “lease”. As the time of the expiration of the leases came due, the people summering there stopped doing any maintenance. The government, in its infinite wisdom, apparently had placed no maintenance requirements in the leases. By the time time Park Service got the “cabins”, they were pretty run down. And with the usual governmental short sight, the NPS would not expend any money to improve. So, rather than gaining income producing property which could have been enjoyed by many, they let them pretty much cave in. Even the first time I saw them, they looked bad. The last time they were horrible. Yes, be careful if you go look...not ghosts but rotting wood! I have always thought Elkmont served as a prime example of governmental favortism and mismanagement.

If you’re interested the below is copied from Wikipedia,
“... In 1912, a resort hotel, the Wonderland Park Hotel, was constructed on a hill overlooking Elkmont. A group of Knoxville businessmen purchased the Wonderland in 1919 and established the "Wonderland Club." Over the next two decades, the Appalachian Club and Wonderland Club evolved into elite vacation areas where East Tennessee's wealthy could gather and socialize.[2]

Upon the creation of the national park in the 1930s, most of Elkmont's cottage owners were given lifetime leases. These were converted to 20-year leases in 1952, and renewed in 1972. The National Park Service refused to renew the leases in 1992, and under the park's general management plan, the hotel and cottages were to be removed. In 1994, however, the Wonderland Hotel and several dozen of the Elkmont cottages were listed on the National Register of Historic Places as Elkmont Historic District, Great Smoky Mountains National Park, sparking a 15-year debate over the fate of the historic structures. In 2009, the National Park Service announced plans to restore the Appalachian Clubhouse and 18 cottages and outbuildings in the Appalachian Club area (which were older and more historically significant) and remove all other structures, including the Wonderland Annex (the main hotel had collapsed in 2005)....”

I absolutely agree. It was really dumb and shortsighted. I wish they would build a beautiful rustic parkitecture lodge on that site. It should have had one from the beginning. Something like the Timberline Lodge built by the WPA. I have never understood why the GSMNP are so shortchanged in that department.

It will never happen now, the NP service doesn't produce anything great like that anymore. They just designate everything they can as "wilderness" so they don't have to spend any money managing or developing...Oh and to keep the regular folk riff raff that can't walk five miles out so they can have it all to themselves. The parks were supposed to preserved and managed for all Americans, not just the outdoors elites.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

What happens when you get 3rd generation of inbred tree hugger back to wilderness yahoos running the parks. They'd tear up the roads if they could. Only Leave No Trace hikers allowed.

Elkmont and Wonderland should have been National Treasures.

I love the National Parks, but you hit the nail on the head. They are run by elitist idiots now.

 

[Smallvol#1]

I absolutely agree. It was really dumb and shortsighted. I wish they would build a beautiful rustic parkitecture lodge on that site. It should have had one from the beginning. Something like the Timberline Lodge built by the WPA. I have never understood why the GSMNP are so shortchanged in that department.

It will never happen now, the NP service doesn't produce anything great like that anymore. They just designate everything they can as "wilderness" so they don't have to spend any money managing or developing...Oh and to keep the regular folk riff raff that can't walk five miles out so they can have it all to themselves. The parks were supposed to preserved and managed for all Americans, not just the outdoors elites.

There’s a lot of truth here. I’m definitely a “leave no trace” hiker, and if we pack it in, we pack it out. That said for the only “lodge” to be Le Conte, and at best a five mile hike up Alum Cave to get to it, is short sighted. There are a lot of people who would enjoy an opportunity to spend a night in the park. Yellowstone, Zion, Bryce, Crater Lake etc. all have lodging. Yes, it’s hard to get a reservation, but it can be done. There is a fine line between availability and overuse, Yosemite Valley is a nightmare to avoid! But I believe an intelligent, educated planner could develop a workable plan. I’ve seen the GSM park, hiked every mile of every trail on the official map; some people can’t hike over 20 miles a day. Some can’t hike five. Just wish there was a way to allow a little more of them to get “into” the park’s serenity areas and have a little downtime to enjoy them. And if anyone throws down a piece of paper, can, or cigarette butt.....ban them for life!!!!

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

There’s a lot of truth here. I’m definitely a “leave no trace” hiker, and if we pack it in, we pack it out. That said for the only “lodge” to be Le Conte, and at best a five mile hike up Alum Cave to get to it, is short sighted. There are a lot of people who would enjoy an opportunity to spend a night in the park. Yellowstone, Zion, Bryce, Crater Lake etc. all have lodging. Yes, it’s hard to get a reservation, but it can be done. There is a fine line between availability and overuse, Yosemite Valley is a nightmare to avoid! But I believe an intelligent, educated planner could develop a workable plan. I’ve seen the GSM park, hiked every mile of every trail on the official map; some people can’t hike over 20 miles a day. Some can’t hike five. Just wish there was a way to allow a little more of them to get “into” the park’s serenity areas and have a little downtime to enjoy them. And if anyone throws down a piece of paper, can, or cigarette butt.....ban them for life!!!!

Well said..Litterers of National Parks deserve a special place in hell. I want to go to Yosemite so bad, and if you go you can't miss the Valley. I wish if they are going to implement plans to limit access, that they would start with forieners. I was in YNP and GTNP for 6 days back in September and estimate that at least 50-60% of the crowds were Asian forieners.

I try to visit in the shoulder seasons when it is less crowded, but when I do finally make my pilgrimage to Yosemite I want to go when the falls are all flowing and the Tioga pass road and Glacier point is open, so I will have to go in late May or early June, therefore I will just have to plan for delays and crowding. It is a necessary evil I guess to appreciate one of the most beautiful places on Earth. My luck with reservation lotteries is bad, so I hope they never go to a system like that. I will never see it if that happens.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

But I go to Smokies all the time because they are so close to us, last year we went over there 6 times, if I can deal with Cades Cove crowds I can deal with anything..

 

[Smallvol#1]

Well said..Litterers of National Parks deserve a special place in hell. I want to go to Yosemite so bad, and if you go you can't miss the Valley. I wish if they are going to implement plans to limit access, that they would start with forieners. I was in YNP and GTNP for 6 days back in September and estimate that at least 50-60% of the crowds were Asian forieners.

I try to visit in the shoulder seasons when it is less crowded, but when I do finally make my pilgrimage to Yosemite I want to go when the falls are all flowing and the Tioga pass road and Glacier point is open, so I will have to go in late May or early June, therefore I will just have to plan for delays and crowding. It is a necessary evil I guess to appreciate one of the most beautiful places on Earth. My luck with reservation lotteries is bad, so I hope they never go to a system like that. I will never see it if that happens.

That is going to take some luck. We've been when the falls were going, recommended, and when Tioga Pass/Glacier Point were open. Never managed to hit both at once. Yosemite is my brother's home park; he grew up in San Francisco. He has a BS from UT in forestry (highest GPA in his college as a senior,JS&#128522, so he is a fount of knowledge...also a train buff. We've always used his input when planning Yosemite, Sequoia, King Canyon. If you go, DON'T miss Sequoia, do all three if possible. They are well worth it.

Yes as to shoulder season. We plan a lot in May, September, October... that is hard due to football though. And if they limit the parks, citizens should have first choice. Getting hard to get into Zion. Not being ugly, but America first. The Japanese have always been polite though, in our experience...but the Chinese! Rude and dangerous. Seen them take cars right over the curb on to the sidewalk. Then get out of the car and walk away laughing! I was still on the sidewalk, recovering from my heart attack😂😂!

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

That is going to take some luck. We've been when the falls were going, recommended, and when Tioga Pass/Glacier Point were open. Never managed to hit both at once. Yosemite is my brother's home park; he grew up in San Francisco. He has a BS from UT in forestry (highest GPA in his college as a senior,JS&#128522, so he is a fount of knowledge...also a train buff. We've always used his input when planning Yosemite, Sequoia, King Canyon. If you go, DON'T miss Sequoia, do all three if possible. They are well worth it.

Yes as to shoulder season. We plan a lot in May, September, October... that is hard due to football though. And if they limit the parks, citizens should have first choice. Getting hard to get into Zion. Not being ugly, but America first. The Japanese have always been polite though, in our experience...but the Chinese! Rude and dangerous. Seen them take cars right over the curb on to the sidewalk. Then get out of the car and walk away laughing! I was still on the sidewalk, recovering from my heart attack😂😂!

The tour groups we encountered in YNP were all Chinese and Korean..I nearly developed a hatred for them while there 🤪 I agree about the Japanese, they are always respectful and polite.

I have lost a lot of respect for Chinese and Korean culture because of this. I know there are ugly American tourists that give us all a bad name, but they were the ugliest tourists I've ever encountered anywhere..just totally rude and disrespectful as a whole. I wish they would stay where they come from.

 

[Smallvol#1]

The tour groups we encountered in YNP were all Chinese and Korean..I nearly developed a hatred for them while there 🤪 I agree about the Japanese, they are always respectful and polite.

I have lost a lot of respect for Chinese and Korean culture because of this. I know there are ugly American tourists that give us all a bad name, but they were the ugliest tourists I've ever encountered anywhere..just totally rude and disrespectful as a whole. I wish they would stay where they come from.

Sadly, I must agree. Been overseas to Europe several times. Never saw any other nationality act ugly, sure there are some but never saw any stand out. But the Chinese! Rudest overall group of people (nationality) I have ever had the misfortune to be around. And I've been to France😂😂😂😂.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Sadly, I must agree. Been overseas to Europe several times. Never saw any other nationality act ugly, sure there are some but never saw any stand out. But the Chinese! Rudest overall group of people (nationality) I have ever had the misfortune to be around. And I've been to France😂😂😂😂.

It is strange...Chinese Americans and Korean Americans are among the most polite people you can deal with.

On another note, my little brother works for Space X in LA, and I will probably spend a couple of weeks traveling when I go out and visit him hopefully next year. Joshua Tree, Yosemite and Sequoia/Kings canyon and Lassen Volcanic and Redwood National Parks are all definite mists on that trip. I can't hike very far anymore due to my health, so I won't spend as much time hiking as I'm used to doing. It will give us more time to drive to areas I would pass on to do hikes though.

 

[Smallvol#1]

It is strange...Chinese Americans and Korean Americans are among the most polite people you can deal with.

On another note, my little brother works for Space X in LA, and I will probably spend a couple of weeks traveling when I go out and visit him hopefully next year. Joshua Tree, Yosemite and Sequoia/Kings canyon and Lassen Volcanic and Redwood National Parks are all definite mists on that trip. I can't hike very far anymore due to my health, so I won't spend as much time hiking as I'm used to doing. It will give us more time to drive to areas I would pass on to do hikes though.

Surprised me too since the Chinese or Koren Americans I have known have always been very polite - and also interesting. Don’t know if it’s something about being a tourist or what. Never had any known experiences with Korean tourists, just Chinese and Japanese...night and day difference. Japanese are definitely photo crazy, but so is TO!, but they are polite and considerate while doing it.

Lassen Volcanic is great! There are some relatively easy hikes and the area beautiful. It is hard to find accommodations. Do you camp/RV? We don’t, so I’m always looking for lodging. There are some motels on the outskirts of the park, pretty basic/rough, clean enough to be acceptable (lower your standards a little bit for this trip!), but it will be worth it. Enjoyed Joshua Tree, I think that is the one with the oasis, Fortynine Palms? TO is not here for me to ask. We were lucky enough to see the trees in bloom. If you want any data ask me and I’ll pick TO’s memory, pictures are a real asset for that. If he will send me a couple of picks I’ll post them. We did Big Bend, Carlsbad, Guadalupe, Saguaro, Joshua Tree, Channel Islands, Yosemite, Sequoia, Kings Canyon, and Death Valley on that trip. Went in May to see the falls in Yosemite. Had had heavy snow that year so they were full. Got lodging in the valley, hard to get in and out, but well worth it to not have to drive so far to access the park. We also stayed on another side of Yosemite, Wawona Hotel..the name has been changed to Big Tree Lodge. Stayed outside of park last time, would not recommend, takes a lot of driving just to get there each day.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Surprised me too since the Chinese or Koren Americans I have known have always been very polite - and also interesting. Don’t know if it’s something about being a tourist or what. Never had any known experiences with Korean tourists, just Chinese and Japanese...night and day difference. Japanese are definitely photo crazy, but so is TO!, but they are polite and considerate while doing it.

Lassen Volcanic is great! There are some relatively easy hikes and the area beautiful. It is hard to find accommodations. Do you camp/RV? We don’t, so I’m always looking for lodging. There are some motels on the outskirts of the park, pretty basic/rough, clean enough to be acceptable (lower your standards a little bit for this trip!), but it will be worth it. Enjoyed Joshua Tree, I think that is the one with the oasis, Fortynine Palms? TO is not here for me to ask. We were lucky enough to see the trees in bloom. If you want any data ask me and I’ll pick TO’s memory, pictures are a real asset for that. If he will send me a couple of picks I’ll post them. We did Big Bend, Carlsbad, Guadalupe, Saguaro, Joshua Tree, Channel Islands, Yosemite, Sequoia, Kings Canyon, and Death Valley on that trip. Went in May to see the falls in Yosemite. Had had heavy snow that year so they were full. Got lodging in the valley, hard to get in and out, but well worth it to not have to drive so far to access the park. We also stayed on another side of Yosemite, Wawona Hotel..the name has been changed to Big Tree Lodge. Stayed outside of park last time, would not recommend, takes a lot of driving just to get there each day.

We are not campers yet, but we would look like to in the future. We stayed at Colter Bay cabins in GT and Moose Bay cabins on Henry's lake in Idaho when we visited YNP. We don't do fancy, we love rustic.

I don't really mind the driving to get to the park if I have to stay somewhere outside the park, I'm kind of used to it from visiting Yellowstone and GTNP. You just can't get away from driving for hours there. I would love to stay at the Wawona someday.

Ps..Where did you stay in the valley?

 

[Smallvol#1]

We are not campers yet, but we would look like to in the future. We stayed at Colter Bay cabins in GT and Moose Bay cabins on Henry's lake in Idaho when we visited YNP. We don't do fancy, we love rustic.

I don't really mind the driving to get to the park if I have to stay somewhere outside the park, I'm kind of used to it from visiting Yellowstone and GTNP. You just can't get away from driving for hours there. I would love to stay at the Wawona someday.

Ps..Where did you stay in the valley?

It’s called Yosemite Valley Lodge. Prior name was something about falls, I think. You can walk out and be on a trailhead. Hiked up to some falls, etc. from there. Driving in and out is slow, and it is hard to find a parking space even though you are staying there. And you HAVE to find a space! Sort of opposite side of valley from Ahwanee. We enjoyed our stay in Wawona (whatever it’s called now). Could walk out your door, cross the road, and access a trail.

We stayed in cabins in Glacier one time, but for GT stayed in the nearby town. If you ever go to Crater Lake, stay at the lodge. That one is well worth the expense. We stayed in cabins at Old Faithful and that was great. Got up, freezing cold outside, snow on ground, and walked the boardwalks around. All the thermal activity made it a spectacular walk. I hate the cold, but that one was well worth it! Then we walked back and had breakfast at the hotel. Got a table where we could see outside and enjoy. Also stayed in cabins on the canyon side of Yellowstone the same trip. Could walk out the door and access a trail, or easily drive up to the Falls.

Never tried the tent camping areas they have...where the tents are set up etc. and you pretty much check in like at a hotel, but there are a lot of them. Might be interesting if you wanted to try. TO has his limits...and those are past them!