The shut down thread

[AM64]

So where is individual healthcare mandated in there?

Careful, ND, remember you are talking to the people who took free "speech" and turned it into something completely unrecognizable. Libs are the very people who will screw up an anvil with a rubber hammer.

 

[AM64]

"I hope it shows that we're not here just to talk about Islam the whole time," Bhatti said......

Then..... in the same paragraph.

An important part of Islam is to help "wipe away the tears of our neighbors during time of distress," he said.

I wonder if he means something like while they are being stoned ... with rocks.

 

[LouderVol]

What is funny is that Trump has such a need for validation that he fabricates conversations. He does this all the time. It's the sign of an insecure person, who is also, very dishonest.

yes, and?

 

[LouderVol]

Have you ever read Article I, Section 8? There are "powers" given to Congress--i.e., things they are permitted to do--not mandates to do x and y. True nationalized healthcare, if ever enacted, would fall under the general welfare clause.

how about we fix the water infrastructure, and other leading causes that lead us to "need" a healthcare system? You know try and fix the problem, instead of trying to fix the symptom.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Have you ever read Article I, Section 8? There are "powers" given to Congress--i.e., things they are permitted to do--not mandates to do x and y. True nationalized healthcare, if ever enacted, would fall under the general welfare clause.

And is huge over reach and the very definition of Big Government and gets the people even more indebted to you. So it makes perfect sense from your parties agenda standpoint.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Careful, ND, remember you are talking to the people who took free "speech" and turned it into something completely unrecognizable. Libs are the very people who will screw up an anvil with a rubber hammer.

Indeed

 

[evillawyer]

And is huge over reach and the very definition of Big Government and gets the people even more indebted to you. So it makes perfect sense from your parties agenda standpoint.

"Overreach" of what? It's clearly within the powers of Congress. And ensuring the general welfare of the nation is a core function of the government. Far from an overreach, it's what the government should be trying to ensure.

 

[NorthDallas40]

how about we fix the water infrastructure, and other leading causes that lead us to "need" a healthcare system? You know try and fix the problem, instead of trying to fix the symptom.

That doesn’t result in a dependent population that has to have big government to survive, thus they are not interested.

 

[NorthDallas40]

"Overreach" of what? It's clearly within the powers of Congress. And ensuring the general welfare of the nation is a core function of the government. Far from an overreach, it's what the government should be trying to ensure.

No it isn’t. There is no such basis for a mandate to individual healthcare under a general welfare clause ffs!

 

[VolStrom]

how about we fix the water infrastructure, and other leading causes that lead us to "need" a healthcare system? You know try and fix the problem, instead of trying to fix the symptom.

What's wrong with the water infrastructure? I open my spigot and out comes clean good tasting water for penny's a gallon. Best infrastructure we have in the US next to the power grid. I don't have natural gas, although I have in the past and loved it.

 

[NorthDallas40]

What's wrong with the water infrastructure? I open my spigot and out comes clean good tasting water for penny's a gallon. Best infrastructure we have in the US next to the power grid. I don't have natural gas, although I have in the past and loved it.

Talk to Flint MI about that... not sure it’s a Fed causation. But Fed will end up cleaning it up due to MI dumbasses.

 

[evillawyer]

No it isn’t. There is no such basis for a mandate to individual healthcare under a general welfare clause ffs!

And the clause also provides only for the "common defense" of the United States. Are you going to argue that if Mexico wants to take back Texas and invades Texas for that purpose that Congress is powerless to intervene since Congress can only provide for the "common defense of the United States," not the defense of those in Texas?

 

[DancingOutlaw]

And the clause also provides only for the "common defense" of the United States. Are you going to argue that if Mexico wants to take back Texas and invades Texas for that purpose that Congress is powerless to intervene since Congress can only provide for the "common defense of the United States," not the defense of those in Texas?

So a country must attack all states at once for the government to defend against it?

 

[VolStrom]

Talk to Flint MI about that... not sure it’s a Fed causation. But Fed will end up cleaning it up due to MI dumbasses.

Standard issue with water comments, "talk to Flint". Do you understand why Flint had a problem with their water system? It wasn't because of the quality of water, in case you don't know.

 

[lawgator1]

The Senate should just pass the House bills, as they had just passed them a few weeks ago, Trump can sign, and then negotiate from a better position. Right now, the Dems have too much political capital with the "we are a check on Trump" theory. Sure it would aggravate a few of the Trump base short-term, but in the long run allow him to say he was the reasonable one and worked on compromise.

 

[evillawyer]

So a country must attack all states at once for the government to defend against it?

That would seem to be entailed by nd40's view of that clause. At the end of the day, he's just being obstinate. Even the national review acknowledges that nationalized healthcare would be constitutional under the general welfare clause. Goes back to a 1937 case upholding social security.

If Obamacare Is Unconstitutional, Why Aren’t Medicare & Medicaid? | National Review

 

[AM64]

Talk to Flint MI about that... not sure it’s a Fed causation. But Fed will end up cleaning it up due to MI dumbasses.

I see that as a local rather than federal problem. However, if it keeps a yankee at home, then perhaps chipping in is worth it.

A lot of the problems appear to be in older and poorer maintained utilities in northern areas, and it sure looks like they aren't paying adequately for maintaining their older utility infrastructure. When a whole northern neighborhood explodes, it screams that the utility didn't adequately monitor and control pipeline pressure (perhaps poorly maintained valves and controllers), and NYC seems to have a lot of underground electrical explosions. Then you have PG&E facing murder lawsuits and bankruptcy for sparking forest fires ... seems like those enlightened people don't grasp keeping electrical transmission equipment and combustible materials separate.

 

[golfballs]

When I worked for the federal govt we all wished to be shut down. Might not get a paycheck during it, but they just pay you back. It’s like a surprise vacation. Very nice

 

[NorthDallas40]

That would seem to be entailed by nd40's view of that clause. At the end of the day, he's just being obstinate. Even the national review acknowledges that nationalized healthcare would be constitutional under the general welfare clause. Goes back to a 1937 case upholding social security.

If Obamacare Is Unconstitutional, Why Aren’t Medicare & Medicaid? | National Review

No! You’re extrapolating a general health case which the CDC currently serves just fine into and individual mandate! You’re wrong. The government has no mandate to provide individual healthcare and they damn sure have no right to FORCE compliance with that healthcare! That has already been stripped, and repeal is the next step!

And give me my money back on social security and the rest of the socialist programs and we’ll call it good! Deal?

 

[LouderVol]

"Overreach" of what? It's clearly within the powers of Congress. And ensuring the general welfare of the nation is a core function of the government. Far from an overreach, it's what the government should be trying to ensure.

that's not ensuring the general welfare of the nation. all you are doing is treating a symptom.

ensuring general welfare would be requiring people to exercise everyday and eat healthy. you are still going about things backwards.

 

[LouderVol]

What's wrong with the water infrastructure? I open my spigot and out comes clean good tasting water for penny's a gallon. Best infrastructure we have in the US next to the power grid. I don't have natural gas, although I have in the past and loved it.

Atlanta GA still has clay pipes. who knows how many miles of lead pipes remain. I forget what the number was but the City of Atlanta leaks a staggering amount of water. and if water can get out, contaminants can get in. there was even a water filter commercial harping on the quality of water coming out of the taps of different cities all over the country.

 

[LouderVol]

The Senate should just pass the House bills, as they had just passed them a few weeks ago, Trump can sign, and then negotiate from a better position. Right now, the Dems have too much political capital with the "we are a check on Trump" theory. Sure it would aggravate a few of the Trump base short-term, but in the long run allow him to say he was the reasonable one and worked on compromise.

you have to sign it first before you can compromise on it?

 

[DancingOutlaw]

you have to sign it first before you can compromise on it?

I think I heard that song a few years back....

 

[AM64]

I think I heard that song a few years back....

I know, and it sure seems like Trump gave in and signed a few spending bills on the basis that Dims would work on compromises that included funding for a wall. Sometimes you just gotta quit playing the other side's game. The old "fool me once, fool me twice" kinda thing.

 

[theFallGuy]

We should keep the government shut down until we hire an OC.