The slow demise of college football as we knew it, speeds up

#26
#26
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#30
#30

Just really a good example of how f'd up the whole thing is. Truly difficult to project how good or bad anyone will be when half the team every year is completely new.

Every high school player these days has to be viewed as a potential one and done deal. No real commitment to the school or the team. Every player for sale every year. Well done, NCAA.
 
#31
#31
More to the point of the original story, has anyone heard about the TN legislature and UT gearing up to allow school based NIL and fund that NIL?

The reality is: if other states are going to allow it, like they did with NIL, TN is going to have to get aboard the train or get left behind in recruiting.

Once lawmakers and courts are done once again cutting the NCAA's power to police recruiting, we need to be ready with a school based NIL or somehow fold Spyre partially or fully into the school.

Is anyone inside enough to know what's going on in Nashville and Knoxville to match VA?
 
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#33
#33
We WERE talking about all the changes in the game of College Football. Traditions gone for change's sake. The ncaa has basically been a spectator to the most recent. I think you missed the essence of my calculation. And see how the Marxists do it? You don't even notice...
Mercy sakes, we sure don’t want none of them Commonists hanging around do we? Just couldn’t leave the usual claptrap in the Politics slime pit could you? Stay over there with that 💩.
 
#34
#34
It's not the NCAA. The big culprits are a two/three misguided legal decisions plus the idiot programs that thought packaging NIL with recruiting was a good idea. It was a terrible idea--a stupid idea, as I have many times pointed out.

I do recall Vol fans and others being elated at the judicial ruling that put a temporary halt to the NCAA's effort to ban NIL in recruiting. Many fans think NIL in the recruiting of high school prospects and existing college student-athletes is wonderful. It's not---and it's not going to lead to more parity.

What we have now makes a complete mockery of "college" sports. I mean, owing to rampant commercialism it has been trending this way for a while--but now we've got an absurd circus that has turned most student-athletes into greedy mercenaries, coaches have to almost completely rebuild their rosters every year, rampant transferring--all in the name of want to do more for student-athletes already getting a free four/five year academic scholarships plus other bennies PLUS an annual payment of a few/several thousand dollars a year now, I believe. When it all leads to Dartmouth basketball players--Dartmouth basketball players!---voting to unionize, you know somebody let the monkeys out of the cage.

The fact that nearly all of the NIL deals are kept secret is an indication that the sport--the athletic directors and others---don't want the public to see what college FB/BB have become--bribery contests for players, with the payment amounts all kept hidden, the players jumping yearly from one program to another for more money, etc etc. Conference expansion and realignment is also a freaking joke---what exactly is the point of conferences with a ridiculous 18/20 members? Inevitably we seem headed to CFB with one mega-conference comprising 50 or so quasi-professional programs that have opted in to shelling out big money to their players (formerly know as student-athletes) while all other schools stick with college sports as they used to be.

College is college: It is not supposed to be professional. But it got big, with bigger and bigger TV deals--and then they idiot activists jumped in with their nonsense about players being exploited. The usual "give us free money" crowd. The student-athletes are already getting free money--a free college education, which is worth a lot of money, but because it's not cash in pocket, the activists (who are not big on education) pretend that the student-athletes are getting nothing. They're getting a lot.

The legal decisions are also a bit perplexing--and have further opened Pandora's Box.

And it doesn't help when a bunch of morons decide that we need a bigger playoff. No, we don't. It's just greed--by the conferences, athletic directors, school presidents and networks masquerading as "giving other programs a chance." It's a con job on fans, essentially---the same con that we've seen in the steadily expanding playoffs in pro sports. "Your .500 MLB or NFL team, or your 20th ranked college football team, has a chance to win the Big Taco because....it's made the playoffs!" It's the same reason some clowns are pushing to expand the NCAA BB tourney--every team deserves a chance to play in the NCAA! More teams, more games, more money! Your middling team is not going to win--but that's ok, because that's entertainment!
There are several issues that have arisen with this issue. The amount of money universities are making grew astronomically. Everyone was getting more money except the people that impact viewership the most. These are not new issues a lot of the issues have boiled over. Scholarships are not for the entire career they are based on year to year performance so when people say it’s a free education that’s a joke. Nothing about that scholarship is free it is earned on a daily basis for years. Also the NCAA has made moves to make more money but limit athletes ability to make money the hypocrisy is uncanny.
These issues were past down generations and finally came to ahead - who knows how many guys lost a career or opportunity due to the NCAAs god complex. Let’s not forget their inconsistency and picking favorites. If anything I enjoy seeing them take it on the chin.
 
#35
#35
Good thread, but my boomer peeve is that I almost made it through the article and dang if the Taylor Swift didn't pop up there. She must be talented, but I suppose I'll never know.
 
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#37
#37

Just really a good example of how f'd up the whole thing is. Truly difficult to project how good or bad anyone will be when half the team every year is completely new.

CFB has always been a work in progress with a ton of problems. I'll take transfers and player pay all day over problems like....no national championship game.

I mean, wouldn't we rather have players transferring and NIL confusion over the old system where some teams cheated and paid players while others observed the rules?

There is tons of chaos right now as we figure out the new system, but problems with the chaos don't mean this is the wrong course. Of course, there are problems when you have massive upheaval....there were massive problems without it under the status quo, too. We gotta give a lot of time for the dust to settle on this. Players are going to start to realize it's not in their best interest to bounce around so much. For example, you can leave Knoxville for an extra $75k but having a 3-4 year career at Tennessee where you build a real legacy is more valuable than that $75k.
 
#38
#38
Marxism= Change the time honored customs & traditions so the prey will forget who they are and then you got 'em . Little changes become big changes.

That's not what Marxism is.

And we created a market for player pay. This is capitalism. Not Marxism. If you don't like capitalism, that's fine.
 
#39
#39
CFB has always been a work in progress with a ton of problems. I'll take transfers and player pay all day over problems like....no national championship game.

I mean, wouldn't we rather have players transferring and NIL confusion over the old system where some teams cheated and paid players while others observed the rules?

There is tons of chaos right now as we figure out the new system, but problems with the chaos don't mean this is the wrong course. Of course, there are problems when you have massive upheaval....there were massive problems without it under the status quo, too. We gotta give a lot of time for the dust to settle on this. Players are going to start to realize it's not in their best interest to bounce around so much. For example, you can leave Knoxville for an extra $75k but having a 3-4 year career at Tennessee where you build a real legacy is more valuable than that $75k.

I don't disagree that it levels the playing field as between cheaters who got away with it, cheaters who got caught, and non-cheaters.

And its not JUST the fact of NIL, or JUST the fact of the portal. Its the combination that seems to destroy at its core the notion of team, which for a long time meant something still at the college level. Now, its just "what's in it for me?"

There is, at bottom, nothing wrong with that perspective for a player. I am not naive and realize that previously players chose schools for a lot of bad reasons, all of which were at some level selfish interests. But, there was still some element, once at an institution, of having some shared identity with that institution, its fans, and other players.

The combo of NIL and portal has killed that, seems to me.
 
#40
#40
I don't disagree that it levels the playing field as between cheaters who got away with it, cheaters who got caught, and non-cheaters.

And its not JUST the fact of NIL, or JUST the fact of the portal. Its the combination that seems to destroy at its core the notion of team, which for a long time meant something still at the college level. Now, its just "what's in it for me?"

There is, at bottom, nothing wrong with that perspective for a player. I am not naive and realize that previously players chose schools for a lot of bad reasons, all of which were at some level selfish interests. But, there was still some element, once at an institution, of having some shared identity with that institution, its fans, and other players.

The combo of NIL and portal has killed that, seems to me.

There have always been "what's in it for me players," and the challenge for fans and programs is to build around that delicate balance because you're going to end up with some of those guys regardless of the system. Michigan just won a title with a very cohesive team. UConn basketball is the ultimate example of this. They won b2b titles by having as much team buy-in as anybody else, if not more. Hurley isn't looking for the #1 NBA prospect, he's looking for fundamentally sound athletes who can play complicated schemes with high effort.

The sport will reward the teams that build around the right guys. If you have a blue chipper who doesn't fully buy into the team thing and he's saying "more $ or I walk," he's probably doing you a favor.
 
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#41
#41
It's not the NCAA. The big culprits are a two/three misguided legal decisions plus the idiot programs that thought packaging NIL with recruiting was a good idea. It was a terrible idea--a stupid idea, as I have many times pointed out.

I do recall Vol fans and others being elated at the judicial ruling that put a temporary halt to the NCAA's effort to ban NIL in recruiting. Many fans think NIL in the recruiting of high school prospects and existing college student-athletes is wonderful. It's not---and it's not going to lead to more parity.

What we have now makes a complete mockery of "college" sports. I mean, owing to rampant commercialism it has been trending this way for a while--but now we've got an absurd circus that has turned most student-athletes into greedy mercenaries, coaches have to almost completely rebuild their rosters every year, rampant transferring--all in the name of want to do more for student-athletes already getting a free four/five year academic scholarships plus other bennies PLUS an annual payment of a few/several thousand dollars a year now, I believe. When it all leads to Dartmouth basketball players--Dartmouth basketball players!---voting to unionize, you know somebody let the monkeys out of the cage.

The fact that nearly all of the NIL deals are kept secret is an indication that the sport--the athletic directors and others---don't want the public to see what college FB/BB have become--bribery contests for players, with the payment amounts all kept hidden, the players jumping yearly from one program to another for more money, etc etc. Conference expansion and realignment is also a freaking joke---what exactly is the point of conferences with a ridiculous 18/20 members? Inevitably we seem headed to CFB with one mega-conference comprising 50 or so quasi-professional programs that have opted in to shelling out big money to their players (formerly know as student-athletes) while all other schools stick with college sports as they used to be.

College is college: It is not supposed to be professional. But it got big, with bigger and bigger TV deals--and then they idiot activists jumped in with their nonsense about players being exploited. The usual "give us free money" crowd. The student-athletes are already getting free money--a free college education, which is worth a lot of money, but because it's not cash in pocket, the activists (who are not big on education) pretend that the student-athletes are getting nothing. They're getting a lot.

The legal decisions are also a bit perplexing--and have further opened Pandora's Box.

And it doesn't help when a bunch of morons decide that we need a bigger playoff. No, we don't. It's just greed--by the conferences, athletic directors, school presidents and networks masquerading as "giving other programs a chance." It's a con job on fans, essentially---the same con that we've seen in the steadily expanding playoffs in pro sports. "Your .500 MLB or NFL team, or your 20th ranked college football team, has a chance to win the Big Taco because....it's made the playoffs!" It's the same reason some clowns are pushing to expand the NCAA BB tourney--every team deserves a chance to play in the NCAA! More teams, more games, more money! Your middling team is not going to win--but that's ok, because that's entertainment!
What college did you go to that limited your ability to earn money based on your Name, Image, and Likeness? The answer is none.

the NCAA was doing something that otherwise doesn't exist. Doesn't matter what OTHER benefits were thrown their way; the right/wrong comes down to the ability to earn money based on the player's own Name, Image, and Likeness.

Really the colleges are to blame. I think it was back in the 80s when Oklahoma won the ability to control their own television rights. There should have been a court case the day after that ruling came out for the players to get the same rights the schools got.
 
#42
#42
CFB has always been a work in progress with a ton of problems. I'll take transfers and player pay all day over problems like....no national championship game.

I mean, wouldn't we rather have players transferring and NIL confusion over the old system where some teams cheated and paid players while others observed the rules?

There is tons of chaos right now as we figure out the new system, but problems with the chaos don't mean this is the wrong course. Of course, there are problems when you have massive upheaval....there were massive problems without it under the status quo, too. We gotta give a lot of time for the dust to settle on this. Players are going to start to realize it's not in their best interest to bounce around so much. For example, you can leave Knoxville for an extra $75k but having a 3-4 year career at Tennessee where you build a real legacy is more valuable than that $75k.
I think the chaos will die down too just due to market forces.

I have already read multiple stories about various NILs collectives talking about donor fatigue. eventually that money will largely dry up, there will always be some. but it won't be like it is right now. Currently everyone is jumping on it, and money is piling up, because its new.

I think as things shake out the dollar amounts will die way down, and thus will a lot of the emphasis on NIL. Yeah there will always been kids willing to jump from one school to another for an extra grand, but a lot won't. I don't think in 5-10 years you will see many if any deals for a million dollars. I think we will see the "sure fire" guys getting a couple hundred grand to go to a big school. but the rest will really drop down to the 10-100k range.
 
#43
#43
There have always been "what's in it for me players," and the challenge for fans and programs is to build around that delicate balance because you're going to end up with some of those guys regardless of the system. Michigan just won a title with a very cohesive team. UConn basketball is the ultimate example of this. They won b2b titles by having as much team buy-in as anybody else, if not more. Hurley isn't looking for the #1 NBA prospect, he's looking for fundamentally sound athletes who can play complicated schemes with high effort.

The sport will reward the teams that build around the right guys. If you have a blue chipper who doesn't fully buy into the team thing and he's saying "more $ or I walk," he's probably doing you a favor.
It's extremely interesting that we EXPECT the school to be entirely "what's in it for me" when it comes to recruiting and talent. Winning and success is actually EVERYTHING for the school.

Fans seeing the same qualities in players of seeking personal success and personal victories look at it with distain. Players are seen as selfish and mercenary but the schools are seen as "good" if they politely ask players to leave if they recruit over them or sign massive media deals and million dollar coaches so they can win.

Goose meet gander. The only reason we look back at "the good ol' days" when students didn't transfer and didn't cash NIL paychecks was because the NCAA illegally prevented it.

If players are mercenary and selfish, they learned it the old fashioned way...... from the schools.
 
#44
#44
What college did you go to that limited your ability to earn money based on your Name, Image, and Likeness? The answer is none.

the NCAA was doing something that otherwise doesn't exist. Doesn't matter what OTHER benefits were thrown their way; the right/wrong comes down to the ability to earn money based on the player's own Name, Image, and Likeness.

Really the colleges are to blame. I think it was back in the 80s when Oklahoma won the ability to control their own television rights. There should have been a court case the day after that ruling came out for the players to get the same rights the schools got.


The theory at the time of "what's in it for them" was a free education and a chance to be coached to a point they made it to the NFL.

Those benefits seem to be taking a back seat to near term payoff. Not so sure but that some players who make a decision based solely on NIL dollars, or portal opportunities, and who end up passed over down the line at the combine might regret not picking a school -- and sticking with it -- that might not offer the same instant riches but that would have brought them along correctly to stand a better chance at the combine.
 
#45
#45
The theory at the time of "what's in it for them" was a free education and a chance to be coached to a point they made it to the NFL.

Those benefits seem to be taking a back seat to near term payoff. Not so sure but that some players who make a decision based solely on NIL dollars, or portal opportunities, and who end up passed over down the line at the combine might regret not picking a school -- and sticking with it -- that might not offer the same instant riches but that would have brought them along correctly to stand a better chance at the combine.
I think that's just looking back at the "good ol' days" but we know most of these players will never see the NFL or NBA or MLB, so "what's in it for me in the short term" is very much the correct path.

That scenario describes most players, so I doubt we see a stop to "reaching for the bag now." It's the smart move.

We'll also see that a lot of true blue chip guys like Ewers or Nix or Burrow or Kyler Murray or Mayfield didn't suffer from transferring.

If you're on the cusp for the pros, maybe staying at a school makes sense, but as shown above that's not the case for most college players and going for the short money is the right move.
 
#46
#46
I think that's just looking back at the "good ol' days" but we know most of these players will never see the NFL or NBA or MLB, so "what's in it for me in the short term" is very much the correct path.

That scenario describes most players, so I doubt we see a stop to "reaching for the bag now." It's the smart move.

We'll also see that a lot of true blue chip guys like Ewers or Nix or Burrow or Kyler Murray or Mayfield didn't suffer from transferring.

If you're on the cusp for the pros, maybe staying at a school makes sense, but as shown above that's not the case for most college players and going for the short money is the right move.


For many, yes. Maybe even for the majority.

But surely some will regret it.
 
#47
#47
For many, yes. Maybe even for the majority.

But surely some will regret it.
Very few ever play pro ball, even at elite programs, in any sport.

If you're not going to get paid at the next level, it's a no-brainer to take as much money as possible in college.

I'm certain there are regrets, even among the blue chip players. While I'd never argue that David Robinson erred patriotically or in terms of honor by going to the Naval Academy, he certainly could've maximized his basketball training and career preparation at somewhere like Duke or NC vs a service academy.

For the vast majority, get the money now because you won't later.
 
#48
#48
Very few ever play pro ball, even at elite programs, in any sport.

If you're not going to get paid at the next level, it's a no-brainer to take as much money as possible in college.

I'm certain there are regrets, even among the blue chip players. While I'd never argue that David Robinson erred patriotically or in terms of honor by going to the Naval Academy, he certainly could've maximized his basketball training and career preparation at somewhere like Duke or NC vs a service academy.

For the vast majority, get the money now because you won't later.


That is a valid point I had not considered earlier.

I wonder what the average is across the board, and I wonder what the variance is between a starting 5 star QB at an Ohio State versus a 3 star bench warmer offensive lineman at Ole Miss.
 
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#49
#49
That is a valid point I had not considered earlier.

I wonder what the average is across the board, and I wonder what the variance is between a starting 5 star QB at an Ohio State versus a 3 star bench warmer offensive lineman at Ole Miss.
I'd tell recruits that Rodney Garner will prepare you for the league and that's true, but a whole lot of it is natural talent.

Pearce is a beast and Garner will have him as well prepared for the next level as anyone in the college game, but mostly Pearce is a beast.

I think NIL and the portal are VERY bad for the game and bad for a player's development to the next level but let's be honest, most players just aren't pro material and never will be no matter who coaches them.

Take the money. It's the smart move.
 

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