The thoughts of many liberal as I see it

#76
#76
pejp said:
Well, if i just called up and asked for an MRI with no reason I doubt they are going to do it!

If it were for a genuine but non-urgent reason, then of course it'd probably be longer than with private care......but luckily if i really needed an MRI, THERE IS A PRIVATE SYSTEM TOO!!!

Why do people keep ignoring that part?
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Did you happen to catch this thread? Seems no liberals had a rebuttal.

http://www.volnation.com/forum/politics/77697-abcs-john-stossel-destroys-government-health.html
 
#77
#77
I'll watch it fully tonight when I'm not at work. My initial thought after watching 90 seconds of it are that the images of people lining up in the streets and the guys lining up outside parliament are pure unadulterated 100% bull**** journalism. That story is from 2004, where a small town called Scarborough had a chronic shortage of NHS dentists, so when registration for a new dentist came available people queued in the streets. Thats one small town, 5 years ago. Obviously private dentists were available during this time also. The video of the guys lining up outside of parliament..I have no idea what that is..but there are certainly no doctors practices opposite the houses of parliament. He has basically taken some footage of people lining up for something, and then used it while talking about the healthcare in the UK as some kind of shock tactic. It's a complete lie.

One point I would make though, NHS dental coverage is pretty inadequate. The vast majority of dentists are private...but again, the NHS option is there for people that cant afford private.

I'll watch the rest later and respond. It's hard to listen to it at my desk.
 
#78
#78
pejp said:
Well, if i just called up and asked for an MRI with no reason I doubt they are going to do it!

If it were for a genuine but non-urgent reason, then of course it'd probably be longer than with private care......but luckily if i really needed an MRI, THERE IS A PRIVATE SYSTEM TOO!!!

Why do people keep ignoring that part?
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Why have both, if you a forced to pay into one health care system (government controlled) and then have to pay even more for a private plan........I guess the question is why should anyone have to pay for the same thing twice?

The care in the UK may not be that bad (I simply don't know) but from what I gather the program is expensive for the country and taxes are terribly high. These high tax rates have a pretty negative effect on the population that lives there. Like in some major cities in America with high tax rates this forces many residents to live with less, not a problem if you rake in big bucks but the average citizen is hurt because it makes everything more costly to buy there, simply because of liberal spending policies.
 
#79
#79
KB5252 said:
Why have both, if you a forced to pay into one health care system (government controlled) and then have to pay even more for a private plan........I guess the question is why should anyone have to pay for the same thing twice?

The care in the UK may not be that bad (I simply don't know) but from what I gather the program is expensive for the country and taxes are terribly high. These high tax rates have a pretty negative effect on the population that lives there. Like in some major cities in America with high tax rates this forces many residents to live with less, not a problem if you rake in big bucks but the average citizen is hurt because it makes everything more costly to buy there, simply because of liberal spending policies.
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Well, this is the point where we become ideologically different to the US. My taxes go towards the NHS, but I also have private healthcare. I've never met anyone who has a problem with this. I just see it as the price to pay for a better society. The NHS has an annual budget of around 100 billion GBP, which is roughly 165 billion USD.

I'm not really sure about tax rates to be honest. I know that in some European countries such as Sweden and Denmark they have very high taxes...but then by all accounts they have an incredibly high standard of public services which account for it.

UK tax is about the same as here. We have tax bands, so on the first say..3k of earnings its tax free, on the next 15k it'll be 12%, anything over 22k will be taxed at 23%, and then anything over 33k will be taxed at 40%...these figures arent exact, but thats basically the way it works.

I can hand on heart say that I pay more tax here than I ever did in the UK. My last bonus was taxed at around 42%..although I think thats because I live in Manhattan so we have to pay NYC tax. I'm not sure I agree with your reasoning on this....taxes are banded..i.e. you pay more the more you earn...so the cost to the working poor is nothing compared to the cost of having to pay for private insurance, or being uninsured and having to pay directly. Surely thats why over half of personal bankruptcies in this country can be attributed to healthcare costs?
 
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#80
#80
pejp said:
I'll watch it fully tonight when I'm not at work. My initial thought after watching 90 seconds of it are that the images of people lining up in the streets and the guys lining up outside parliament are pure unadulterated 100% bull**** journalism. That story is from 2004, where a small town called Scarborough had a chronic shortage of NHS dentists, so when registration for a new dentist came available people queued in the streets. Thats one small town, 5 years ago. Obviously private dentists were available during this time also. The video of the guys lining up outside of parliament..I have no idea what that is..but there are certainly no doctors practices opposite the houses of parliament. He has basically taken some footage of people lining up for something, and then used it while talking about the healthcare in the UK as some kind of shock tactic. It's a complete lie.

One point I would make though, NHS dental coverage is pretty inadequate. The vast majority of dentists are private...but again, the NHS option is there for people that cant afford private.

I'll watch the rest later and respond. It's hard to listen to it at my desk.
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Thank you, I applaud your cahones for actually replying. No other liberal here would touch it.
 
#83
#83
SavageOrangeJug said:
Thank you, I applaud your cahones for actually replying. No other liberal here would touch it.
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thats all I care about. I just want to get my point across. I may not have the same opinions as you guys, but my reasons are just as valid. All I want is for you people to appreciate that I genuinely think what I do and have solid reasons for doing so.

I've been out on the beers all night so I still havent had a chance to properly watch and respond but I guarantee i will.
 
#84
#84
SavageOrangeJug said:
Let me take a wild guess here.

You consider Keith Oblermann a journalist?
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Just in case your interested...I dislike Olbermann a lot. I also strongly dislike Bill Maher. However, I also think that Fox News is a complete and utter ****ing joke. I strongly feel that anyone that watches Beck and thinks that he could be considered a 'journalist' is a moron....but I have certain respect for O'Reilly and Hannaty (sp?) as they at least justify their opinions. Beck may as well be a comedian.
 
#85
#85
pejp said:
Just in case your interested...I dislike Olbermann a lot. I also strongly dislike Bill Maher. However, I also think that Fox News is a complete and utter ****ing joke. I strongly feel that anyone that watches Beck and thinks that he could be considered a 'journalist' is a moron....but I have certain respect for O'Reilly and Hannaty (sp?) as they at least justify their opinions. Beck may as well be a comedian.
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The only people I know that give a rip about Beck are liberals. Probably similar to idiots like Maddow and Olbermann.
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#86
#86
BigPapaVol said:
The only people I know that give a rip about Beck are liberals. Probably similar to idiots like Maddow and Olbermann.
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I dont know about that mate....Beck seems pretty ****ing popular. Who are all these people that watch him then?? Are they all 'libs' like me that watch him for comedy value? I doubt it......
 
#87
#87
pejp said:
I dont know about that mate....Beck seems pretty ****ing popular. Who are all these people that watch him then?? Are they all 'libs' like me that watch him for comedy value? I doubt it......
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You ever hear someoe with a brain parrot an idea of Beck's. Think maybe people who have Foc o by default in their offices are the preponderance of his audience. The rest just watch for the incendiary nature of his idiocy.

He's a lunatic sideshow. Pretending he's the face of anything is silly.
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