The Time Out mystery

[GameTime]

I'm a fan of coach Kellie, but why does she not use a strategically placed "time out" to break the momentum of the other team, or at least to discuss strategy to stop the onslaught of points the other team is scoring? Hell fire, she could even talk offensive strategy.....

Anything would help, but to just watch the other team pummel your team and not try something to change the momentum is extremely questionable to me..

The logical answer is she wants her squad to work through the difficulty, but this unusual pattern of not calling time outs is beginning to drive a few people, including me, a little nuts....

 

[LadyVols_WBK]

yes finally a sensible thread after a loss.

 

[Nute Gunray]

GameTime, you are right on, she does want her team to work through the difficulty themselves. She does this because she, unlike her mentor, is not a player motivator. I am not saying she is not a good coach. I am saying she expect the players to motivate themselves in a crucial game situation. Hence, she does not call timeouts in these crucial game situations.

 

[RobertPellitt]

Simply put there is just a different strategy. I grew up in North Carolina and went to UT. So I am a "VoluntHeel" in basketball season. It drives me crazy that Roy Williams does the same thing. I think it is like the "2 point conversion chart" you either subscribe to it or not. It has worked for Roy Williams so I can't blame it but it can be frustrating to watch a double digit lead evaporate and then see another team stop our momentum with a good TO.

 

[Orange_Mamba]

Trusting your team is all fine and dandy, but when a team knocks off 18 straight points and have your girls in a blender something’s gotta give.

 

[sccshortstop]

Simply put there is just a different strategy. I grew up in North Carolina and went to UT. So I am a "VoluntHeel" in basketball season. It drives me crazy that Roy Williams does the same thing. I think it is like the "2 point conversion chart" you either subscribe to it or not. It has worked for Roy Williams so I can't blame it but it can be frustrating to watch a double digit lead evaporate and then see another team stop our momentum with a good TO.

Must be an old days coaching thing!! HW did it as well as RB and many more. I am a old coach and it drives me nuts to see it. Sometimes you have to stop the bleeding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rickster]

One reason she does not call a timeout is that she knows the play being called will work. I agree that she expects the team leadership to take over and assert themselves. We have three high-capacity scorers , an emerging post presence but still struggle executing offenses. It is on-floor leadership that has to step in and get the team back on track. She would not be much of a coach if she micromanaged the players during the game. The team did some really good things last night that will be overshadowed by the outcome. I look at it like I look at my stocks. Over time things will get better but don't expect continual improvement. These are people. They will take steps forward and backwards.

 

[volmainia2]

I'm a fan of coach Kellie, but why does she not use a strategically placed "time out" to break the momentum of the other team, or at least to discuss strategy to stop the onslaught of points the other team is scoring? Hell fire, she could even talk offensive strategy.....
just like Holley

Anything would help, but to just watch the other team pummel your team and not try something to change the momentum is extremely questionable to me..

The logical answer is she wants her squad to work through the difficulty, but this unusual pattern of not calling time outs is beginning to drive a few people, including me, a little nuts....

 

[Coach Jumper]

GameTime, you are right on, she does want her team to work through the difficulty themselves. She does this because she, unlike her mentor, is not a player motivator. I am not saying she is not a good coach. I am saying she expect the players to motivate themselves in a crucial game situation. Hence, she does not call timeouts in these crucial game situations.

Must be an old days coaching thing!! HW did it as well as RB and many more. I am a old coach and it drives me nuts to see it. Sometimes you have to stop the bleeding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trusting your team is all fine and dandy, but when a team knocks off 18 straight points and have your girls in a blender something’s gotta give.

Exactly Orange...It is a great building tool, but only after the first floor or two is built,,,,Otherwise it is a staircase that leads to a non-floor.

Once your team has shown the ability to upright itself when it goes out of kilter, you do this to further their growth.
I tell my players, you can't force the game, it has to come to you....If you are hitting your twos and want to see if your threes will follow, give it a look, but if the three is consistently falling short,,,go back to what works and work on threes another day...You can't force the three to fall.

Same with coaching, if your team gets growth from something, challenge it further, but if your team is hobbled by something, don't use that tactic.

Understand something, it's not the athletes here and I will tell you why,,,if it were the players, they would have never got and held the lead in the first half,,,these are elite players and they played like it in the first half,,,then something went south a minute or two into Q3...and it continued!

Players aren't allowed to call a timeout to stop momentum...they can call one if they are trapped or about to get into a bad situation, but they traditionally can not call one to get the team back on track or attempt to stop momentum,,,this is the coach's responsibility,

 

[Coddlecreek1]

Simply put there is just a different strategy. I grew up in North Carolina and went to UT. So I am a "VoluntHeel" in basketball season. It drives me crazy that Roy Williams does the same thing. I think it is like the "2 point conversion chart" you either subscribe to it or not. It has worked for Roy Williams so I can't blame it but it can be frustrating to watch a double digit lead evaporate and then see another team stop our momentum with a good TO.

Dean Smith was the same. Hence Roy’s strategy, I never understood why?

 

[VolBall09]

Appears to me she’s often holding out for the media timeouts. Sometimes that doesn’t cut it though. Last night our team quit playing (both ends) at the 7:00 minute mark of the third quarter. We turned it over for a layup and two 3s in a row. It was time to call a TO without a doubt. Instead we limped along until the media timeout and let them score another 10-12 points.

Feels different when Coach actually uses a timeout. Gets your attention, especially when you know they don’t like to call one. Can really send a message just by calling a :30 and letting them have it about the fact that you even had to call one in the first place.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Appears to me she’s often holding out for the media timeouts. Sometimes that doesn’t cut it though. Last night our team quit playing (both ends) at the 7:00 minute mark of the third quarter. We turned it over for a layup and two 3s in a row. It was time to call a TO without a doubt. Instead we limped along until the media timeout and let them score another 10-12 points.

Feels different when Coach actually uses a timeout. Gets your attention, especially when you know they don’t like to call one. Can really send a message just by calling a :30 and letting them have it about the fact that you even had to call one in the first place.

I have said this several times and it holds true,,,a media timeout is not a timeout,,,and it does not have the same effect on the game, players or situation

 

[GameTime]

If any of you guys know any media people that interview her, ask them to ask her about this trait of hers....Last year she did say she wants the team to work through it, but we did not work so well through this one.

 

[GameTime]

Guys, next season we will most likely have 5 scorers on the court at once, instead of the 3 or less we have now.....And yes, I know it does not help now guys, but I'm an optimist by nature.

We all hurt...

 

[creekdipper]

Good discussion.

 

[Fullfillmer]

I'm a fan of coach Kellie, but why does she not use a strategically placed "time out" to break the momentum of the other team, or at least to discuss strategy to stop the onslaught of points the other team is scoring? Hell fire, she could even talk offensive strategy.....

Anything would help, but to just watch the other team pummel your team and not try something to change the momentum is extremely questionable to me..

The logical answer is she wants her squad to work through the difficulty, but this unusual pattern of not calling time outs is beginning to drive a few people, including me, a little nuts....

Deer - meet headlights.

 

[Nute Gunray]

One reason she does not call a timeout is that she knows the play being called will work. I agree that she expects the team leadership to take over and assert themselves. We have three high-capacity scorers , an emerging post presence but still struggle executing offenses. It is on-floor leadership that has to step in and get the team back on track. She would not be much of a coach if she micromanaged the players during the game. The team did some really good things last night that will be overshadowed by the outcome. I look at it like I look at my stocks. Over time things will get better but don't expect continual improvement. These are people. They will take steps forward and backwards.

Rickster, I understand what you are saying about micromanaging. However, Pat Summitt was a micromanager. I am not saying that a good coach must micromanage but look at the results Pat that achieved through micromanaging her players.

 

[Rickster]

Rickster, I understand what you are saying about micromanaging. However, Pat Summitt was a micromanager. I am not saying that a good coach must micromanage but look at the results Pat that achieved through micromanaging her players.

I disagree that she was a micromanager. Each of her teams had an established leader(s) that the troops would rally around. She prepared the team and managed the game. She did not tell everyone what to do all the time.

 

[tn4everlvfl]

I'm a fan of coach Kellie, but why does she not use a strategically placed "time out" to break the momentum of the other team, or at least to discuss strategy to stop the onslaught of points the other team is scoring? Hell fire, she could even talk offensive strategy.....

Anything would help, but to just watch the other team pummel your team and not try something to change the momentum is extremely questionable to me..

The logical answer is she wants her squad to work through the difficulty, but this unusual pattern of not calling time outs is beginning to drive a few people, including me, a little nuts....

I’m afraid the guy next to her in this picture is possibly part of her problem. He’s supposed to be the post player coach.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I disagree that she was a micromanager. Each of her teams had an established leader(s) that the troops would rally around. She prepared the team and managed the game. She did not tell everyone what to do all the time.

SHe wasn't afraid to put equal coaches around her in fact she suggested it . . . .

"Surround yourself with people who are better than you are. Seek out quality people, acknowledge their talents, and let them do their jobs. You win with people"

< Pat Summitt's Definite Dozen >

 

[glv98]

It's been obvious KJH does not subscribe to the "magical time out" strategy for a long time. Usually I'm ok with that and trust her coaching judgement as to whether it will do any good as far as stopping momentum, etc.

But last night was a bit much, even for me. It almost seemed like uber stubborn adherence to the coaching philosophy in spite of the glaring circumstances at hand. Hell, I at least would have wanted a little chat with them. "Hey guys, what are you doing? WtF is wrong with us?" Just a snap out it already chat. It certainly wouldn't have hurt.

I've long wished the LVs had their own John Adams (I like him). Some serious journalist willing to ask a hard question, unlike Flessor and God knows unlike poor ole Mickey. Why she hates time outs, the philosophy of it, would be interesting to hear bc its definitely a thing. Learned at NC state maybe? Sounds like it has NC roots.

 

[GameTime]

Good reply guys...

Some media person has to ask when your team is bleeding out points, why not stop and at least talk about it....It is the logical thing to do.

 

[Volfan2012]

I'm a fan of coach Kellie, but why does she not use a strategically placed "time out" to break the momentum of the other team, or at least to discuss strategy to stop the onslaught of points the other team is scoring? Hell fire, she could even talk offensive strategy.....

Anything would help, but to just watch the other team pummel your team and not try something to change the momentum is extremely questionable to me..

The logical answer is she wants her squad to work through the difficulty, but this unusual pattern of not calling time outs is beginning to drive a few people, including me, a little nuts....

All I can say is she must have been thinking this team was advanced enough to make the adjustment on it's own. I hope she also knows that she was dead wrong and will have to light this team up occasionally and sooner more than later. This was probably the first time all season that she saw the team play with minimum effort for several minutes coming out of the locker room. Cost them the game.

 

[glv98]

One really crazy thought I had while watching the uninterrupted awfulness was whether this was what Lou Brown meant in saying Kellie was "playing for the future". Just let the clusterfu*k play through, don't slow it down on the way to having her own team, unspoiled by the hangover of Hollyball. I don't really think that's it but I had way too much time to think between the blessed media timeouts.

 

[Volfan2012]

One really crazy thought I had while watching the uninterrupted awfulness was whether this was what Lou Brown meant in saying Kellie was "playing for the future". Just let the clusterfu*k play through, don't slow it down on the way to having her own team, unspoiled by the hangover of Hollyball. I don't really think that's it but I had way to much time to think between the blessed media timeouts.

I think most of us can agree she goofed up all of us do it doesn't really say whether she will be successful in the long run as our coach or not. I think people thinking we will ever get back to the glory days of Pat Summitt may as well move on now. I think the key is can she win the SEC get to some final fours with a chance to win maybe a title or two. I don't think any of us want to be stuck in the middle of the SEC and that will be unacceptable. I can live with an SEC title every two or three years and top finish in the league every season. We have to get back to being an elite team in our conference and top 10 in the country most seasons. To get there seems to be a long way to go at this time, but every coach gets four seasons to get their own players then the judging becomes easier. I think she will have to step up recruiting with a couple top tens to get to anywhere we want to be. Only time will tell and I can give her that much time before making a judgement of her capabilities. I think anyone that doesn't see improvement since Holly is not being truthful. Of course those last two years of Holly are not a tough threshold to overcome.