The Time Out mystery

[Coach Jumper]

I think most of us can agree she goofed up all of us do it doesn't really say whether she will be successful in the long run as our coach or not. I think people thinking we will ever get back to the glory days of Pat Summitt may as well move on now. I think the key is can she win the SEC get to some final fours with a chance to win maybe a title or two. I don't think any of us want to be stuck in the middle of the SEC and that will be unacceptable. I can live with an SEC title every two or three years and top finish in the league every season. We have to get back to being an elite team in our conference and top 10 in the country most seasons. To get there seems to be a long way to go at this time, but every coach gets four seasons to get their own players then the judging becomes easier. I think she will have to step up recruiting with a couple top tens to get to anywhere we want to be. Only time will tell and I can give her that much time before making a judgement of her capabilities. I think anyone that doesn't see improvement since Holly is not being truthful. Of course those last two years of Holly are not a tough threshold to overcome.

If you want what I have you have to do what I did

Pat didn't coach scared
She was strong, vocal and had a presence.
People are scared of coaches like that in this politically correct first world...I'm not

If you're scared, buy a DOG

 

[Volfan2012]

If you want what I have you have to do what I did

Pat didn't coach scared
She was strong, vocal and had a presence.
People are scared of coaches like that in this politically correct first world...I'm not

If you're scared, buy a DOG

I think it would've been very appropriate for Coach Harper after that third basket of the third quarter to call time out and light into them very strongly to get it together. I think not doing so was a huge factor in Tennessee losing the game. Pat was not hateful and mean all the time, but she would ring you up totally in front of a crowd of people if she didn't think your effort was what she expected. I know in this day of the easy transfer coaches are lighter on kids scared to give them tough coaching. I am hoping this was a one time thing and next time Coach Harper will respond much differently to the same situation.

 

[glv98]

Pat didn't coach scared
She was strong, vocal and had a presence.
People are scared of coaches like that in this politically correct first world...I'm not

If you're scared, buy a DOG

We're just going to have to agree to disagree. For you and others, if there is not a visible public display there cannot be strength. And then, naturally, the leap straight to political correctness as the reason a coach is not outwardly demonstrative. I simply do not believe that's correct and in fact believe its way over simplistic.

Coaches have different styles just as people have different personalities. They can be effective in many different ways and may not be in any way beholding to prevailing political or cultural norms, just to personal styles. It's a decision recruits make, what style of coaching fits me best for my personal goals. Does not need to be one size fits all.

The other thing I really disagree with is the notion that mistakes in a game are willful misbehavior that can be scolded away. So at some point the player says to themselves, "I'm throwing this ball the hell away as soon as I cross halfcourt and screw em if they don't like it!" Then after being berated on TV and in front of crowd says "Well ok, that was a bad idea, now I won't make turnovers or play poorly." Again, way oversimplistic and oh but that it were that easy!

 

[Coach Jumper]

I think it would've been very appropriate for Coach Harper after that third basket of the third quarter to call time out and light into them very strongly to get it together. I think not doing so was a huge factor in Tennessee losing the game. Pat was not hateful and mean all the time, but she would ring you up totally in front of a crowd of people if she didn't think your effort was what she expected. I know in this day of the easy transfer coaches are lighter on kids scared to give them tough coaching. I am hoping this was a one time thing and next time Coach Harper will respond much differently to the same situation.

Agree!

 

[Coach Jumper]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree. For you and others, if there is not a visible public display there cannot be strength. And then, naturally, the leap straight to political correctness as the reason a coach is not outwardly demonstrative. I simply do not believe that's correct and in fact believe its way over simplistic.

Coaches have different styles just as people have different personalities. They can be effective in many different ways and may not be in any way beholding to prevailing political or cultural norms, just to personal styles. It's a decision recruits make, what style of coaching fits me best for my personal goals. Does not need to be one size fits all.

spoken like a Beta-passive aggressive

 

[glv98]

spoken like a Beta-passive aggressive

Well thanks! I'm sure you mean that as a compliment, but what the hell is that anyway? Speaking of political correctness, what kind of New Age gobbledygook is 'beta passive aggresive?' I have no idea.

So now I must dramatically exit and get on the exercise bike. I will be doing so after just half a dozen or so more posts.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Well thanks! I'm sure you mean that as a compliment, but what the hell is that anyway? Speaking of political correctness, what kind of New Age gobbledygook is 'beta passive aggresive?' I have no idea.

So now I must dramatically exit and get on the exercise bike. I will be doing so after just half a dozen or so more posts.

You and I are at the point where if we were in person, I'd cuss you out and put you in your place...But we're not so all I can say is

 

[I4Vols]

GLV98 - " ...John Adams (I like him). Some serious journalist..."

Those words don't fit together.

 

[Lucy]

So one significant personality trait that Pat and Kellie seem to share is stubbornness. Like small town Tennessee girl jaw set stubbornness. If Kellie has decided she is not going to use timeouts to stop runs or blister her players then thinking this last game will change her behavior is a fools errand.
Sounds like she did lay into them in the locker room as Rennia said it wasn’t good.
I’ve noticed a lot of our posters tend towards demanding near torture for the players if there is a loss. A coach has got to know their players. Run them until they puke might work for some kids but not all. I guess it is human nature that every generation thinks subsequent generations are molly coddled. So for everyone on here that walked four miles uphill, both ways, in the snow to school, remember your grandparents thought you were never disciplined and were spoiled rotten.

 

[creekdipper]

The really puzzling thing is that the same folks who want the team to run until they fill the trash cans on the end lines are the same ones who allege that Kellie is running them to death before games.

 

[VolBall09]

The really puzzling thing is that the same folks who want the team to run until they fill the trash cans on the end lines are the same ones who allege that Kellie is running them to death before games.

Yes that’s me

There is a time and a place for running. The morning of a game is not it.

 

[creekdipper]

Yes that’s me

You down with OPP? (Yeah, you know me)

Break it down!

 

[creekdipper]

Seriously, I keep hearing this "running before games" rumor. Where has that been verified?

Citation, please.

 

[Coach Jumper]

GLV98 - " ...John Adams (I like him). Some serious journalist..."

Those words don't fit together.

his credibility takes a punch with each new post
"Kellie smacking the players",,,sheesh

 

[creekdipper]

While not averse to attention-getting and focus-producing running (Had to do it as an athlete and have assigned many "suicides" and "goat trails" when coaching), I believe that perhaps a more productive way of cutting down turnovers is to practice against extreme pressure (6 on 5, 2 on 1, etc.) with the drill continuing until acceptable results can be achieved. Any punitive running can come post-practice unless a player is obviously dogging it in front of the team. Then that player can immediately run laps or stairs while practice continues.

 

[glv98]

I believe that perhaps a more productive way of cutting down turnovers is to practice against extreme pressure (6 on 5, 2 on 1, etc.) with the drill continuing until acceptable results can be achieved

Common sense. Of course if a player openly dogs it and worst, quits on her teammates, she's immediately called out and punished.

But our turnover sprees seem to come from indecision and bad decisions, plus some physical limitations of certain players. Those seem best addressed with drills and film study, not wearing out game legs and risking injury with running,

 

[creekdipper]

What I have found both as a player and coach is that players absolutely hate to have to repeatedly run a drill until the goal has been reached.

Of course, once that goal is reached, a new, higher goal is set by the diabolical coach.

Punitive running has a definite limit, and tgen it's over. Running drills to attain an achievable goal can be really frustrating. But it does not only improve individual and team efficiency, it also builds team cohesion. And helps players deal with frustration, with which some of our most talented players struggle at times.

It's part of the methods of He Who Shall Not Be Named, who although seriously lacking in class and social skills does have a good grasp on obtaining results from competitors.

 

[madtownvol]

Common sense. Of course if a player openly dogs it and worst, quits on her teammates, she's immediately called out and punished.

But our turnover sprees seem to come from indecision and bad decisions, plus some physical limitations of certain players. Those seem best addressed with drills and film study, not wearing out game legs and risking injury with running,

In the GA game, particularly in the 4th quarter, I saw a lot of turnovers that were due to a stress response-- that is, under stress, peoples field of vision tends to narrow and they rush things. You saw times, the LVs would make a pass, oblivious to a defender who was lurking in the passing lane or the pass receiver not being aware that she needed to shield with her body etc.

I am not surprised that younger players, like Destiny and marta had that problem but I am disappointed in Rae and Rennia, and the Jordans who should be more battle tested. I agree with the previous poster that more practice at dealing with pressing situation would help (as well as film study). Teams will know that pressure this is the LVs achilles heels unless they get more proficient at managing it.

 

[glv98]

In the GA game, particularly in the 4th quarter, I saw a lot of turnovers that were due to a stress response-- that is, under stress, peoples field of vision tends to narrow and they rush things. You saw times, the LVs would make a pass, oblivious to a defender who was lurking in the passing lane or the pass receiver not being aware that she needed to shield with her body etc.

I am not surprises that younger players, like Destiny and marta had that problem but I am disappointed in Rae and Rennia, and the Jordans who should be more battle tested. I agree with the previous poster that more practice at dealing with pressing situation would help (as well as film study). Teams will know that pressure this is the LVs achilles heels unless they get more proficient at managing it.

Exactly. I see a panic response, a fog of uncertainty, a bad case of here we go agains. Once the snowball starts rolling it quickly becomes an avalanche. I often said Holly's teams had one of the worse cases of the sports yips I've ever seen. I'm so disappointed it's carried over, though mercifully not as often as before. I think the older players like Rae for example, are getting somewhat better about it but I guess its just a slow process toward consistently making good decisions and staying focused through adversity. All best addressed with drills, coaching and experience, not punishment IMO.

If I was playing the LVs and had some speed, I'd press the bejez out of us.

 

[RAVOL]

I'm a fan of coach Kellie, but why does she not use a strategically placed "time out" to break the momentum of the other team, or at least to discuss strategy to stop the onslaught of points the other team is scoring? Hell fire, she could even talk offensive strategy.....

Anything would help, but to just watch the other team pummel your team and not try something to change the momentum is extremely questionable to me..

The logical answer is she wants her squad to work through the difficulty, but this unusual pattern of not calling time outs is beginning to drive a few people, including me, a little nuts....

my two cents one she like most coaches tend to let team play through struggles and Second and I believe the most important when you save your timeouts at the end of game you advance the ball and she believes every game will be close and advancing ball so important. In CHRIST Alone

 

[madtownvol]

my two cents one she like most coaches tend to let team play through struggles and Second and I believe the most important when you save your timeouts at the end of game you advance the ball and she believes every game will be close and advancing ball so important. In CHRIST Alone

What hurt the LVs more down the stretch was not having enough fouls. They could not play the game of putting GA on the FT line and hoping for a miss because they only had one team foul when they started the process. So, Kellie needed every time out to stop the clock.

 

[Coach Jumper]

What I have found both as a player and coach is that players absolutely hate to have to repeatedly run a drill until the goal has been reached.

Of course, once that goal is reached, a new, higher goal is set by the diabolical coach.

This is why many of my drills are timed and most of my running drills are with the ball. If you run a certain number or an absent number of suicides, once the goal has been reached there is a "I got there" feeling, But with timed drill, there is no getting there, there is always a second, or thousandth of a second to cut off. If you run timed drills often the athletes will run longer and with more intensity because there is no destination and there is no thinking about reaching the destination,,,the only thought is bettering the previous best time

 

[Coach Jumper]

What hurt the LVs more down the stretch was not having enough fouls. They could not play the game of putting GA and hoping for a miss because they only had one team foul when they started the process. So, Kellie needed every time out to stop the clock.

very good point,,,fouls to give are great for holding a lead, but a detriment to catching up...this was part of the game management that Kellie fell short on

 

[Volfan1000]

Coach K, Dean Smith, Roy Williams and Rick Barnes trust their teams to run the play or plays and they have probably already run through every scenario in practice situations so they believe that the players should know what to do.

 

[GameTime]

Coach, I hope someday you get a knock on your door, and you are finally chosen to be part of the Lady Vol coaching family....

The only caveat to that wish is that you keep coming on here and communication your thoughts and ideas with us....