There is no lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball

#26
#26
Nashvol2 said:
Assuming this is our starting line-up, we have a decently talented offensive team. I know alot of folks don't like to look at the stars but it can give you an overall indication of talent. These are the ratings per Rivals.

Offense

QB- Worley 3* 5.6
RB- Neal/ Lane 4* 5.8
FB/TE: Justin King/Brendan Downs 4* 5.8 / *3 5.6
WR- Croom 4* 5.8
WR- North 4* 6.0
WR- Young 3* 5.5
OT- Tiny 4* 5.9
OT- James 4* 5.9
OG- Fulton 3* 5.7
OG- Jackson 4* 5.8
OC- Stone *4 5.8


There's enough talent to win on this side of the ball. I think it's just a matter of finding playmakers. I think Neal, Lane, and Hill will move the chains behind this offensive line.
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First of all, it really doesn't matter at this point what their star ranking was. Let's face it Young, Neal, Lane, and Worley are nothing special.
 
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#28
#28
Crazy Ivan said:
Why do people put so much salt into stars?

Stargazing has worked out pretty good for teams like Bama, LSU, and UF. Obviously there are teams such as Va Tech and even Oregon to a degree, that are not loaded with 4 and 5 stars, and have played for NCs. And have been decisively beaten for the NC by the teams loaded with stars. Good coaching and passion will get you only so far, but if you want to play for all the marbles you better have a roster full of stars.
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5 stars are obvious talents. Bama has as many 3 stars on their roster as 4. Again, it's a guess by a recruiting service. Any coach will tell you stars don't mean a dam thing. They evaluate talent much better than rivals or 247. A ton of 4 stars don't pan out. The average star ranking for the NFL is 3*. I mean, it's an educated guess at best.
 
#29
#29
Voluble2 said:
Looks like a lower division SEC team to me.

It would be wise for us not to get our expectations up. There aren't enough winnable games on the schedule for us to end up with a record we will be very happy with and Butch is having to rebuild the team from the bottom up.

We have one year with a good offensive line before they all graduate or move on to the pros and we don't have the skill position talent and experience to exploit that one area where we have an advantage.

Butch has his work cut out for him.
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egad.
A sign of intelligence. :thumbsup:
 
#33
#33
1985Vols said:
Oregon promoted their OC. They will be sickly talented. Less than 2% chance Vols get a win their. GA has a ton of talent back , especially on offense. SC will be very good this year. Pretty good chance this will all 3 be in the " L" column this coming season barring a few miracles.
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Interesting statistics. I'm curious where you found them?

I think 8 wins may be an optimistic number, although 7 wins plus a bowl win is very reasonable, I don't think it's "ignorant" to hope for that. Just optimistic.
 
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#36
#36
LaagerVol said:
Interesting statistics. I'm curious where you found them?

I think 8 wins may be an optimistic number, although 7 wins plus a bowl win is very reasonable, I don't think it's "ignorant" to hope for that. Just optimistic.
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I appreciate the optimism, but last year's defense combined with an offense that lost 83% of their production? It's going to be a rough season. 6 wins would be good.
 
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#37
#37
hndog609 said:
Downplaying the very concerns you point out yourself is pretty problematic. If we can't get some consistent production from the QB position (this with WR being a "huge concern") we are in real trouble. Results remain to be seen but downplaying QB/WR concerns on an offense is rather like downplaying concerns about the engine and steering on a car.
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I never made the point that we are loaded with game experience. My only point is that these guys are not bottom feeders. There's potential there.
 
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#38
#38
BACKDOC said:
First of all, it really doesn't matter at this point what their star ranking was. Let's face it Young, Neal, Lane, and Worley are nothing special.
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The vast majority of college football players, even the good ones, don't come in as freshmen and blow it up. They steadily get better every year or have a blow up year.

Obviously the perfect storm is to have talent and game experience. That makes for a special team. We have enough talent to play with everyone except for maybe Alabama and Florida to a lesser degree.
 
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#39
#39
VNkid said:
Experience may make Worley the top man though.
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I don't get this thinking. It's not like he has played a lot of games or even backed up in this system for a few years.

My coaches always told me if there is an upperclassman and Freshman about the same level or even close you play the Freshman. If they have about the same skill level go with who will be there longer and develop.
 
#40
#40
Nashvol2 said:
I never made the point that we are loaded with game experience. My only point is that these guys are not bottom feeders. There's potential there.
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Understood, but please note your use of the word "potential".

1. At best potential is a huge question mark.

2. On what are you basing their level of potential? Subjective projections by prognosticators?

I understand your assertions but it's based on some iffy, if not downright dubious assumptions.

FWIW I hope you aren't only right but proven to be pessimistic. :)
 
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#41
#41
I disagree with your assesment, the Vols don't have a proven SEC running Back or proven SEC receivers. We are also lacking a proven SEC QB. Granted, our offensive line has proven it can pass block but has not provided enough proof to say they will be dominant in run blocking.....I hope this will change, but I see a Vol offensive that lacks at almost all skill positions compared with other SEC teams.....time will tell....if we win 5 games I will be suprised....a 4-8 season is entirely possible.
 
#42
#42
Nashvol2 said:
Assuming this is our starting line-up, we have a decently talented offensive team. I know alot of folks don't like to look at the stars but it can give you an overall indication of talent. These are the ratings per Rivals.

Offense

QB- Worley 3* 5.6
RB- Neal/ Lane 4* 5.8 / 4* 5.8
FB/TE: Justin King/Brendan Downs 4* 5.8 / *3 5.6
WR- Croom 4* 5.8
WR- North 4* 6.0
WR- Young 3* 5.5
OT- Tiny 4* 5.9
OT- James 4* 5.9
OG- Fulton 3* 5.7
OG- Jackson 4* 5.8
OC- Stone *4 5.8


There's enough talent to win on this side of the ball. I think it's just a matter of finding playmakers. I think Neal, Lane, and Hill will move the chains behind this offensive line.
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Don't get caught up in star gazing. There is a difference between potential/talent and actual game experience in the south eastern conference. We need both....and we'll get it. Just don't be devastated if doesn't happen this year.
 
#44
#44
LaagerVol said:
Interesting statistics. I'm curious where you found them?

I think 8 wins may be an optimistic number, although 7 wins plus a bowl win is very reasonable, I don't think it's "ignorant" to hope for that. Just optimistic.
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Just being realistic here Nothing wrong with being optimistic unless you come back after the season and start saying we don't have the right guy in CBJ because we go 5-7 or 6-6.
 
#45
#45
1985Vols said:
Oregon promoted their OC. They will be sickly talented. Less than 2% chance Vols get a win their. GA has a ton of talent back , especially on offense. SC will be very good this year. Pretty good chance this will all 3 be in the " L" column this coming season barring a few miracles.
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I think what you mean is that Oregon will be "sickly" experienced in their system. Do not make the mistake of discounting the importance of a coach in their specific system. Arkansas promoted an assistant to take over after Petrino, too. They performed exactly the way their talent would predict. That isn't a fluke.

But where did all of Oregon's supposed world beater talent come from?

Here are their rivals numbers.

Overall Stars
Year.....Rank.....5*....4*....3*....Other*
2013......22.......1......7.....7.........4
2012......16.......0......10....9........2
2011.......9........2......9.....12.......0
2010......13.......1......10.....9.......3

Average Rivals Recruiting Rank: 15

Tennessee has a Rivals recruiting rank of 15 during the same span.

The first counter argument that many people make is that Tennessee has had an unusual amount of attrition during that same period.

I don't think you will find that the exodus you guys have seen is terribly unusual across the 120+ team NCAA docket, you just pay far more attention to a small subset of teams. In essence, we haven't really lost talent, just the experienced talent.

The second counter argument that many people will make is that Oregon just "looks" better than Tennessee, and more people talk about them.

A few things to consider here: Strength of Competition and a system that produces more offensive flash. Oregon plays in the PAC. Couple that with Oregon running a more high scoring offensive system in a league with defenses far inferior to SEC defenses and you see why the talking heads get all slobbery when discussing Oregon.

The third counter argument that people will make is that Oregon "coaches up their talent" better than Tennessee has "coached up theirs".

That is absolutely true. What it means, though, is that Oregon had hit a ceiling and had been performing at a level far above their intrinsic talent would indicate. Tennessee, on the other hand, has been performing consistently about 4 games below their talent would indicate. In other words, there is far more upside to this UT team and far more downside to this Oregon team.

The final counter argument that people make, and this is the most silly, is that the talent on defense was proportional to the on the field performance last year. As defense is what will stop Oregon's offense, this must mean that we are doomed. Last year was an amplified example of what under or mis utilizing talent can look like. The results on the defensive side of the ball aren't simply that we don't have the horses, it is that our horses were blind folded, shackled and beat.

Now, we play Oregon early enough in the year that if there are going to be problems with the coaching transition and the utilization of talent, it will be exploitable. The downside to that is that we play them early enough in the season that the kinks in Jones' system will probably be more easily exposed.

This game will be won between now and August, depending on how both teams react during the off-season work outs and summer training. Granted, that puts Tennessee at a disadvantage because they have to surpass years of under performance, and all Oregon has to do is not drop off significantly.
 
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#46
#46
photovol said:
I disagree with your assesment, the Vols don't have a proven SEC running Back or proven SEC receivers. We are also lacking a proven SEC QB. Granted, our offensive line has proven it can pass block but has not provided enough proof to say they will be dominant in run blocking.....I hope this will change, but I see a Vol offensive that lacks at almost all skill positions compared with other SEC teams.....time will tell....if we win 5 games I will be suprised....a 4-8 season is entirely possible.
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I wonder how many oranjsunshinepumpers if they really had something to lose - let's say betting their best dog to be killed or freed - would pick North of a .500 season?

The ones that would you could line up slap dunce caps on them and throw them into a corner.

No stool. :spank:
 
#47
#47
If I had to choose between these two scenarios (scenarii?),

I'd rather have a strong veteran OL protecting young green talented skill players as they make some mistakes but gain experience,

than a young OL trying to learn how to block stronger older SEC defenders as our veteran skill players get crushed.
 
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#48
#48
VolBraniac said:
I wonder how many oranjsunshinepumpers if they really had something to lose - let's say betting their best dog to be killed or freed - would pick North of a .500 season?

The ones that would you could line up slap dunce caps on them and throw them into a corner.

No stool. :spank:
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If you make the bet, strictly on recruiting averages, you would be right 60-70% of the time.

I have done the math, back to 2002.

If you use UT's recruiting average, we should go 7-5 this year with a coach who only coaches to his talent.

Jones, typically, performs more than 2 games a year over his talent level. This is also true of Petrino, or Chip Kelly, or Brian Kelly, or Spurrier.

Dooley, like Kiff and a ton of other recently fired coaches, has a history of under performing by a magnitude of 3 or more games a year.

The converse question can be applied to you: would you bet something real that Tennessee will be an under .500 team this year? If so, I am totally in on the bet.
 
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#49
#49
I would take 7 and 5 this year and 7 and 5 in 2014 and move on to 2015, because the next 2 years are going to be rough on us, got to get 2 good recruiting classes under our belt then we can stand up to the big boys instead of hiding in the closet.
 
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#50
#50
orangebloodgmc said:
If I had to choose between these two scenarios (scenarii?),

I'd rather have a strong veteran OL protecting young green talented skill players as they make some mistakes but gain experience,

than a young OL trying to learn how to block stronger older SEC defenders as our veteran skill players get crushed.
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We been there before like 3 years ago 3 freshmen starting in the SEC on the OL, they done pretty good maybe it will pay off this year because the 3 now are seniors.
 
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