They Don’t Pay Their Fair Share

[AshG]

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Well... seeing that people when free have so often done so... yeah. Seeing what many of my friends who also grew up in one of the poorest counties in the country have done through good values and hard work... there's no doubt.

Sit down. Bend over and grab your shoestrings. Now pull up hard enough you lift yourself off the chair. Sustain that.

My comment was on the actual efficacy of the saying (or lack thereof), not the sentiment.

 

[luthervol]

In theory every household should share equally the burden of governing the city, county. Every home should share the amount equally. Government on the small scale has an advantage over large scale, though. Small scale government should be assessing taxes on the property based on how that property utilizes city and county services. Property tax should be the highest where the police and fire fighters are called most frequently. Households with children should pay more than those with none.
The size of the house doesn't determine the use of city or county services and because it is unrelated to the services used, it is a poor metric for what should be paid.

- It seems like those least able to pay would be required to pay the most.
- The person with a million dollar home should pay more for police and fire protection because he has more to be protected.
- Everyone benefits form a well functioning, safe, and educated society. The person in the gated community who sends their kids to private school still benefits from public education, affordable housing, etc...

 

[VOLS INC.]

I can count on no fingers the number of posters who have changed their mind on tax policy due to this thread. I can count on the same no fingers on posters who have even paused to consider another point of view for 20 seconds without knee jerk telling the other poster why he's an idiot.

I learned a lot about who should and shouldn’t help the next time I invite my entire family over for a rock moving party.

So not a total waste of time….

 

[Vol8188]

Idiocracy was a mockery of hypercapitalism and a warning against making academia/public education an enemy of the state.

You probably also think that people can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps".

Seemed more like a mockery of how dumb poor people reproduce like rabbits.

But are you really pretending it’s difficult to rise from poverty in this country?

 

[acd4476]

You don't own squat. You lease it. The gov can arbitrarily make your PT so excessive, you cannot afford it, this relinquishing, Yet here we are

Does your state not have a max increase taxable value vs assessed value based on inflation or a certain % whichever is less? Sure the assessed value resets when sold but thats the next person's problem.

 

[Orangeburst]

Does your state not have a max increase taxable value vs assessed value based on inflation or a certain % whichever is less? Sure the assessed value resets when sold but thats the next person's problem.

Laws of valuation can be changed at a whims notice....as seen. All paper.

 

[Vol8188]

I don't think anyone should pay income tax. The definition of a slave is someone whose labor as a commodity does not belong to them. If the government can confiscate part of our wages... then what does that make us?

Otherwise, I think it is a difficult argument since the victims often never fully recover. If someone gets mugged for $20... the costs are much greater than $20. How can we say that felon has the "right" to vote himself money out of that person's check?

If we returned to a fundamentally "libertarian" society then I would have no issue with what you propose.... except that we probably should have some means of restitution.

The only thing I’d disagree with you about is your definition of slavery. Slavery is merely about freedom of association.

For example draftees are military slaves because they’re forced labor, even though their income is untaxed while at war

 

[luthervol]

This is an interesting concept.

Can you expound further on this?

There will always be those who accumulate wealth and power for a variety of reasons. There will always be those who do not accumulate wealth and power for a variety of reasons. Reaching a point where the extremes happily and successfully coexists is the ultimate goal.
I've always been a big believer in societal evolution (even though the last 5 years have seriously tested that belief).

 

[AshG]

But are you really pretending it’s difficult to rise from poverty in this country?

From Useless Etymology:

The phrase “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” originated shortly before the turn of the 20th century. It’s attributed to a late-1800s physics schoolbook that contained the example question “Why can not a man lift himself by pulling up on his bootstraps?”

So when it became a colloquial phrase referring to socioeconomic advancement shortly thereafter, it was meant to be sarcastic, or to suggest that it was an impossible accomplishment.

 

[UT_VOLS13]

There will always be those who accumulate wealth and power for a variety of reasons. There will always be those who do not accumulate wealth and power for a variety of reasons. Reaching a point where the extremes happily and successfully coexists is the ultimate goal.
I've always been a big believer in societal evolution (even though the last 5 years have seriously tested that belief).

LOL, TDS

 

[AshG]

LOL, TDS

Might possibly have nothing to do with TDS. Might have to do with the way individuals treat one another regardless of who is in charge.

 

[Orangeburst]

From Useless Etymology:

The phrase “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” originated shortly before the turn of the 20th century. It’s attributed to a late-1800s physics schoolbook that contained the example question “Why can not a man lift himself by pulling up on his bootstraps?”

So when it became a colloquial phrase referring to socioeconomic advancement shortly thereafter, it was meant to be sarcastic, or to suggest that it was an impossible accomplishment.

Where is my answer Ash?

 

[AshG]

Where is my answer Ash?

I would have to decline. While I greatly appreciate the sentiment and extremely kind nature of the offer, I still have intense feelings of shame when offered assistance from outside the family.

 

[luthervol]

Oh, since we're talking about "stupid"... who would make their 5 year old daughter and 76 year old grandmother move rock in the first place? You'd really do that? And would requiring your son to help be simply to move rocks... or would there be something bigger at stake?

I mean if we're going to pick apart an analogy... let's go ahead and get "stupid" with it.

When each of my kids were 5 they desperately wanted to help; that may be moving 10 rocks over a 30 minute period in this scenario but everyone would have benefited and the greater good would have been served. When my mother in law lived with us she was usually the one encouraging everyone to join her in the yard, she may have tired out after one trip and decided to go in and fix everyone lunch and a drink, but everyone would have benefited and the greater good would have been served.

 

[hog88]

I can count on no fingers the number of posters who have changed their mind on tax policy due to this thread. I can count on the same no fingers on posters who have even paused to consider another point of view for 20 seconds without knee jerk telling the other poster why he's an idiot.

Then you haven’t read the thread.

 

[Orangeburst]

I would have to decline. While I greatly appreciate the sentiment and extremely kind nature of the offer, I still have intense feelings of shame when offered assistance from outside the family.

I can accept that sir and understand the reluctance on an anonymous message board. I tell u what...I will give it to SJCH in your AshG name. That cool?

 

[AshG]

I can accept that sir and understand the reluctance on an anonymous message board. I tell u what...I will give it to SJCH in your AshG name. That cool?

That is a blessing multiplied. God bless you.

 

[Ernest T. Vol]

From Useless Etymology:

The phrase “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” originated shortly before the turn of the 20th century. It’s attributed to a late-1800s physics schoolbook that contained the example question “Why can not a man lift himself by pulling up on his bootstraps?”

So when it became a colloquial phrase referring to socioeconomic advancement shortly thereafter, it was meant to be sarcastic, or to suggest that it was an impossible accomplishment.

Hey Ash, check out this bootstrap transformation, complete with new muscles and awesome side piece:

 

[McDad]

- It seems like those least able to pay would be required to pay the most.
- The person with a million dollar home should pay more for police and fire protection because he has more to be protected.
- Everyone benefits form a well functioning, safe, and educated society. The person in the gated community who sends their kids to private school still benefits from public education, affordable housing, etc...

Some would pay more. Others would pay less.
Should only pay more if more services are used.
True, but the common benefit isn't in question. The funding of the common benefits is.

 

[HammondB3Vol]

Certainly not, just shoulder their equitable portion of the burden required to maintain a country that allows them to accumulate such wealth.

Exactly how much is “an equitable portion?”

 

[UT_VOLS13]

Might possibly have nothing to do with TDS. Might have to do with the way individuals treat one another regardless of who is in charge.

Keep beliving

 

[McDad]

Hey Ash, check out this bootstrap transformation, complete with new muscles and awesome side piece:

See Luther, some men pursue capitalism for reasons other than wealth envy.

 

[luthervol]

Exactly how much is “an equitable portion?”

That is the question of the hour.

 

[acd4476]

Laws of valuation can be changed at a whims notice....as seen. All paper.

Its all paper. The whole system is built on faith now.

 

[Orangeburst]

That is a blessing multiplied. God bless you.

Done. Hopefully contagious