This is why some atheists really bother me

#2
#2
American Atheists filed a lawsuit this week in state court arguing that the group opposes the placement of the cross in the museum because members believe it is the only religious article getting special accommodation there.
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So if I'm interpreting the above correctly, a group that doesn't believe in God is protesting because they're upset only one religious symbol for God is being represented. Seems like they would want none as a protest.

The cross, made of two intersecting steel beams, was found standing in the rubble of the World Trade Center following the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

"This steel remnant became a symbol of spiritual comfort for the thousands of recovery workers who toiled at ground zero, as well as for people around the world," said 9/11 Memorial President Joe Daniels. "In the historical exhibition, the cross is part of our commitment to bring back the authentic physical reminders that tell the story of 9/11 in a way nothing else can.”
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#5
#5
Although if there are similar artifacts from the event, they should be displayed. Hard to imagine a crescent shaped I-beam or something though.
 
#6
#6
I personally am a atheist, and i think they should just leave it alone. It wasn't bothering anything. Although i am a atheist, things like this don't bother me since it's not a attempt to influence me into a certain religion. And it's disgusting that they would protest against this when it's a symbol of 9/11 although it's a religious symbol.
 
#7
#7
There were not only Christians killed in 9/11, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, etc. Where are their memorials? What's so special about two beams that happened to fall in a cross pattern?

9/11 was not an attack on Christianity, rather an attack on the US as a country.

Memorialize all religions or leave the cross out of it.
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#8
#8
Personally, I would have no problem if there are other artifacts that should also be included. Sorry... it's just that the whole approach and reasoning behind the protest hits me the wrong way.
 
#9
#9
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Personally, I would have no problem if there are other artifacts that should also be included. Sorry... it's just that the whole approach and reasoning behind the protest hits me the wrong way.
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They're going about it the wrong way. However, the I-beams are just made up artifacts. Had an actual cross withstood the collapse, then I would have no issue. But the two beams that randomly fell to form a cross is a bit overboard.

The ruling wouldn't affect me one bit, but they're probably just doing it based on principle.
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#10
#10
VOLatile said:
There were not only Christians killed in 9/11, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, etc. Where are their memorials? What's so special about two beams that happened to fall in a cross pattern?

9/11 was not an attack on Christianity, rather an attack on the US as a country.

Memorialize all religions or leave the cross out of it.
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I don't think the museum displaying an iconic piece of the ruin that held religious comfort for some is endorsing Christianity, or belittling other religious/non-religious groups.

Unless they are not including some other religiously significant object.
 
#11
#11
IPorange said:
I don't think the museum displaying an iconic piece of the ruin that held religious comfort for some is endorsing Christianity, or belittling other religious/non-religious groups.

Unless they are not including some other religiously significant object.
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Well said.
 
#12
#12
IPorange said:
I don't think the museum displaying an iconic piece of the ruin that held religious comfort for some is endorsing Christianity, or belittling other religious/non-religious groups.

Unless they are not including some other religiously significant object.
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I don't know. I don't necessarily agree with the lawsuit per se, just the "equal or none" basis behind it.
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#13
#13
VOLatile said:
There were not only Christians killed in 9/11, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, etc. Where are their memorials? What's so special about two beams that happened to fall in a cross pattern?

9/11 was not an attack on Christianity, rather an attack on the US as a country.

Memorialize all religions or leave the cross out of it.
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Wrong. This is a museum. It is an important piece because of the inspiration that was drawn from it by the workers at the site and likely many families. In other words, it is iconic in the history of 9/11.
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#14
#14
IBlvNTmWrk said:
American Atheists filed a lawsuit this week in state court arguing that the group opposes the placement of the cross in the museum because members believe it is the only religious article getting special accommodation there.
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So if I'm interpreting the above correctly, a group that doesn't believe in God is protesting because they're upset only one religious symbol for God is being represented. Seems like they would want none as a protest.
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What you quoted are the words of the articles author, Amanda Plasencia. I am not sure why she wrote those exact words and/or why you chose to ignore the paragraph that followed:

"This cross is now a part of the official WTC memorial. No other religions or philosophies will be honored. It will just be a Christian icon, in the middle of OUR memorial,” Dave Silverman, president of American Atheists, said in a release.
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Convenient how both you and Amanda left the "or philosophies" part out of your straw man.

That said, I could care less if the beams stayed or went; just, when you argue for your position do so with some integrity.
 
#15
#15
VOLatile said:
They're going about it the wrong way. However, the I-beams are just made up artifacts. Had an actual cross withstood the collapse, then I would have no issue. But the two beams that randomly fell to form a cross is a bit overboard.

The ruling wouldn't affect me one bit, but they're probably just doing it based on principle.
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It's more about what it became, not what it was.
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#16
#16
9_11_Cross.jpg


If Christians want it in there, go for it; however, it kind of says:

"Hey look at my miracle...oh, sorry about the thousands upon thousands of dead and wounded." - God
 
#17
#17
therealUT said:
9_11_Cross.jpg


If Christians want it in there, go for it; however, it kind of says:

"Hey look at my miracle...oh, sorry about the thousands upon thousands of dead and wounded." - God
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I don't fully get the logic either, but it was an icon of the event and is worth preserving.
 
#18
#18
therealUT said:
What you quoted are the words of the articles author, Amanda Plasencia. I am not sure why she wrote those exact words and/or why you chose to ignore the paragraph that followed:



Convenient how both you and Amanda left the "or philosophies" part out of your straw man.

That said, I could care less if the beams stayed or went; just, when you argue for your position do so with some integrity.
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You're on a troll of late.

Perhaps they were trying to avoid this very scenario - and wanted the museum and it's exhibits to remain religiously neutral, but the cross artifact was, ostensibly, too iconic to far too many people to be excluded. It's not as if other similar artifacts from various other religions were found, held the same allure and are being refused - that it's a cross (and not a Buddha, crescent moon, or some charred remains that appear to be a profile of Richard Dawkins) seems to be the only noteworthy item worth mentioning.

That lots of people are Christian and drew inspiration from it during a troubling time warrants it's inclusion. Sorry they believe / felt / feel that way, I guess.
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#19
#19
therealUT said:
What you quoted are the words of the articles author, Amanda Plasencia. I am not sure why she wrote those exact words and/or why you chose to ignore the paragraph that followed:



Convenient how both you and Amanda left the "or philosophies" part out of your straw man.

That said, I could care less if the beams stayed or went; just, when you argue for your position do so with some integrity.
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I would suggest you don't question my, or for that matter, anyone elses integrity when you have no grounds to do so. As you well know it was a very short article. I chose the quote because it described the position of the American Atheists group and for no other reason. If the author is wrong about that, or if you have a problem with the author, then I would suggest you take that up with her.

As far as the rest of your statement concerning my "leaving out" a quote. As I've already mentioned, I could care less if other items are included... religious, philosophical, or personal for that matter.

If you're trying to start an argument you might want to try elsewhere. I'm not in the mood.
 
#20
#20
therealUT said:
9_11_Cross.jpg


If Christians want it in there, go for it; however, it kind of says:

"Hey look at my miracle...oh, sorry about the thousands upon thousands of dead and wounded." - God
Click to expand...

Shouldn't you give GS a ghostwriting credit for this post?

You're becoming too obvious. They'll latch onto tripe such as this, albeit eventually.

Tighten it up.
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#21
#21
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I would suggest you don't question my, or for that matter, anyone elses integrity when you have no grounds to do so. As you well know it was a very short article. I chose the quote because it described the position of the American Atheists group and for no other reason. If the author is wrong about that, or if you have a problem with the author, then I would suggest you take that up with her.

As far as the rest of your statement concerning my "leaving out" a quote. As I've already mentioned, I could care less if other items are included... religious, philosophical, or personal for that matter.

If you're trying to start an argument you might want to try elsewhere. I'm not in the mood.
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The quote you chose does not describe the position of the American Atheist Group, it describes the analysis of the opinion by Amanda, the author. The quote I chose, by the President of the American Atheist Group, describes their position.

I have a problem with the author's integrity, as well. Both of you seem to be lacking it.
 
#22
#22
TennTradition said:
Wrong. This is a museum. It is an important piece because of the inspiration that was drawn from it by the workers at the site and likely many families. In other words, it is iconic in the history of 9/11.
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this makes a lot of sense.
 
#23
#23
I don't care, but there really shouldn't be any religious symbolism for this, in a perfect world. Of course it was going to offend non-Christians, not just atheists. It just carries a connotation religious endorsement, which would be contrary to the idea of religious freedom. But then again, there are a lot of other things like this besides museum memorials. Not worth working up a fuss over IMO, but I disagree with the sentiment of he action.
 
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