This whole redshirt mentality needs to be gone

#28
#28
Agree with some of OP's points. I could see keeping the rule for injuries only. And the school has to petition for the extra yr,
 
#29
#29
There was never a plan in place to redshirt Nico. But when you are the majority of the way through the season you should do right by the kid.

He was supposed to play in the Austin Peay game, but the team didn't get the job done. He got 2 throws in during the UTSA game becuase our defense couldn't stop their backuo QB to start the 2nd half and sustain a large lead.

The choice was made during the A&M game when the staff stuck with Milton throughout. Maybe a different story if the defense didn't play well that game. But enough was done and we won.

If Milton got injured, Nico was stepping in and playing. But he didn't. No need to play Nico against Georgia in the 2nd half. It wasn't changing the fact our defense was getting ran over with 8 minute TD drives. It would have just pleased some impatient fans like the OP who probably would have turned on the kid if he didn't surmount a miraculous comeback.
 
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#30
#30
Longsufferingvol said:
It has nothing to do with proving anything to fans. It's about finding out how the guy performs in a real game that is meaningful.
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And when and whether a QB is ready to do that... is WELL above your pay grade.
Longsufferingvol said:
You flat out don't know what we have in Nico until he starts against SEC or comparable competition.
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You flat out don't know when the timing is right to put him in a game vs a team like UGA.
Longsufferingvol said:
Do you remember Josh Dobbs? He was buried on the depth chart and wouldn't have ever gotten to play if injuries didn't force him into action and we found out he was a baller despite not being a good practicer.
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Who said he wasn't good in practice? The players knew and said so. But for every Dobbs there are a half dozen guys whose careers are set back or ruined by being thrown into the fire too soon. Bo Nix may be the best QB in CFB this year. He was physically beaten and his confidence was shattered after being "starter day one" at Auburn. It is almost always best NOT to start a Freshman at QB.
Longsufferingvol said:
So many guys are like that. Then we have guys that look great in practice and suck in a game. Coaches find this stuff out by playing guys.
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At WORST that's a 95/5 proposition. A coach's odds are ALWAYS best by going with the guys who prove themselves in practice.

"So many guys are like that"... like who? Regardless, that does not change the fact that giving Nico a year to develop physically and mentally has a high probability of being best for him and the program.
 
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#31
#31
OrangeBeachVol said:
Agree with some of OP's points. I could see keeping the rule for injuries only. And the school has to petition for the extra yr,
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I honestly don't think the RS means a lot unless it could help him get a medical RS if needed later.
 
#32
#32
Longsufferingvol said:
With the transfer portal and NIL, it's the Wild West. There's not any loyalty on players' part anymore. Most players transfer because of a lack of playing time too. So why the heck is the paradigm still that we should sit on generational talents and redshirt them as a default? It's outdated thinking. If Nico is a baller we should play him now! Who knows what his thought process might be in a year or two. And if he is not a baller we need to find that out too. If he is another Bailey or Guarantano we need to find that out and start making backup plans asap. Also, another argument against playing Nico has been his size and lack of physical development. That begs a lot of questions too because I have seen high school weight training programs here in Tennessee help kids add 30 or 40 pounds of muscle over a summer. That's not uncommon at all. So why isn't Nico more physically ready? He has been in the program almost a year now.
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Beginning of the season, I predicted that Nico would get too many garbage time snaps to get a redshirt, and I was all for that. Season didn't live up to my prediction so why not utilize the redshirt option? He was never going to supplant Milton as the starter when there were reachable season goals and injury wasn't a factor. A few seasons ago, I scoffed at those on the board stating that Morris and Wright should redshirt to help their development. They were the best options! Play talent when it's viable and the redshirt is available if there's a season ending injury in future years...it doesn't go away. In Nico's case, he's our starter next year, so it would have been ideal if we could have put away Austin Peay and UTSA before halftime. As it was, he got two series against Connecticut so there's a lot to read into Heupel's mindset.
 
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#33
#33
sjt18 said:
And when and whether a QB is ready to do that... is WELL above your pay grade.

You flat out don't know when the timing is right to put him in a game vs a team like UGA.

Who said he wasn't good in practice? The players knew and said so. But for every Dobbs there are a half dozen guys whose careers are set back or ruined by being thrown into the fire too soon. Bo Nix may be the best QB in CFB this year. He was physically beaten and his confidence was shattered after being "starter day one" at Auburn. It is almost always best NOT to start a Freshman at QB.

At WORST that's a 95/5 proposition. A coach's odds are ALWAYS best by going with the guys who prove themselves in practice.

"So many guys are like that"... like who? Regardless, that does not change the fact that giving Nico a year to develop physically and mentally has a high probability of being best for him and the program.
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I remember a metric ton of doubt over Dobbs being a SEC level QB after that trial run. Members of that think tank on this board didn't quiet down until after the South Carolina game. He won ONE GAME his true freshman season.
 
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#35
#35
Some players don’t take their ball and just go home when they aren’t starting as freshmen. That year to develop in the weight room without letting your body get absolutely dismantled on the field can pay off in the long run.

Look at James Pierce. He didn’t redshirt last year, but he did not play a lot and was the 3rd string edge (I believe). Fast forward 1 year and he’s likely going to be a 1st team all SEC selection.

Long term, I wouldn’t be surprised if letting Nico redshirt this year works out for the best.
 
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#36
#36
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't know, OP. There are still like four variables involved: getting to the NFL, getting a degree (or even a master's degree), playing for the university you love, and being with your mates.

We tend to think getting to the NFL is the sine qua non for every player. But it's not. Not always. Those other three things count, too. Sometimes one or more of them count just as much as the NFL payday. Sometimes even more.

We simply can't judge every player as if they're all the 'typical player.' And, anyway, what do we even really know about what's "typical"?

So, no, I don't necessarily agree. A redshirt gets more time with your buds. A redshirt gives you more time for education (read: master's degree or two). A redshirt keeps you one year longer at the place you always dreamed of playing while growing up, maybe.

There are still going to be plenty of players for whom a redshirt year has value.

Go Vols!
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A redshirt also gets you the opportunity to learn the playbook and the system with absolutely no pressure. In the Heupel system, that year of „free education“ is worth a lot
 
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#37
#37
Longsufferingvol said:
With the transfer portal and NIL, it's the Wild West. There's not any loyalty on players' part anymore. Most players transfer because of a lack of playing time too. So why the heck is the paradigm still that we should sit on generational talents and redshirt them as a default? It's outdated thinking. If Nico is a baller we should play him now! Who knows what his thought process might be in a year or two. And if he is not a baller we need to find that out too. If he is another Bailey or Guarantano we need to find that out and start making backup plans asap. Also, another argument against playing Nico has been his size and lack of physical development. That begs a lot of questions too because I have seen high school weight training programs here in Tennessee help kids add 30 or 40 pounds of muscle over a summer. That's not uncommon at all. So why isn't Nico more physically ready? He has been in the program almost a year now.
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Have you spoken to the player or his family? Maybe it was their idea.
 
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#38
#38
Longsufferingvol said:
It has nothing to do with proving anything to fans. It's about finding out how the guy performs in a real game that is meaningful. You flat out don't know what we have in Nico until he starts against SEC or comparable competition. Do you remember Josh Dobbs? He was buried on the depth chart and wouldn't have ever gotten to play if injuries didn't force him into action and we found out he was a baller despite not being a good practicer. So many guys are like that. Then we have guys that look great in practice and suck in a game. Coaches find this stuff out by playing guys.
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Dobbs was the QB of the future. Both he and his family wanted to redshirt (2 years in a row). But our OL couldn’t protect Worley.
 
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#41
#41
Longsufferingvol said:
With the transfer portal and NIL, it's the Wild West. There's not any loyalty on players' part anymore. Most players transfer because of a lack of playing time too. So why the heck is the paradigm still that we should sit on generational talents and redshirt them as a default? It's outdated thinking. If Nico is a baller we should play him now! Who knows what his thought process might be in a year or two. And if he is not a baller we need to find that out too. If he is another Bailey or Guarantano we need to find that out and start making backup plans asap. Also, another argument against playing Nico has been his size and lack of physical development. That begs a lot of questions too because I have seen high school weight training programs here in Tennessee help kids add 30 or 40 pounds of muscle over a summer. That's not uncommon at all. So why isn't Nico more physically ready? He has been in the program almost a year now.
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I really think the answer is the one nobody wants to consider. Nico, more than likely, just isnt as good as we all thought he would be. It may take him a while (if ever) to pick up the schemes, etc.
 
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#43
#43
Zues1 said:
I would prefer all incoming athletes must redshirt, ineligible. Go to class and become a student.
One time transfer outside of the conference , after a redshirt season.
Family/ medical transfer would be an exception but must sit that year as well.
NIL money...okay mister hot shot is worth a million or so. Let's do an 80/20 rule on that NIL . 80 for hotshot 20 spilt equality among the rest of the team.
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You’re essentially calling for a return to the freshmen rule prevailing in the 60s and really 70s when freshmen weren’t allowed to play collegiate sports. Some schools had jv basketball teams so freshmen could get some playing experience.
 
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#44
#44
Nico didn't get in some earlier games this year because of how we played. By time we got to the end of the year the redshirt became a possibility. It was not the plan to redshirt him before the year started. If he values his redshirt then I'm glad the coach respected that instead of letting him throw the ball 5 times while we were down 28 to UGA.
 
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#47
#47
I’m concerned next year if Nico isn’t given ample time to grow and develop (that never was the plan for this year) we are going to have a portion of the “vocal fan base” be so obnoxious and unhinged it’ll be pathetic. I realize most of us are knowledgeable enough to understand he’ll need time but we have a few who seem to enjoy that muddy mess. Hopefully I’m wrong.
 
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#48
#48
Longsufferingvol said:
It has nothing to do with proving anything to fans. It's about finding out how the guy performs in a real game that is meaningful. You flat out don't know what we have in Nico until he starts against SEC or comparable competition. Do you remember Josh Dobbs? He was buried on the depth chart and wouldn't have ever gotten to play if injuries didn't force him into action and we found out he was a baller despite not being a good practicer. So many guys are like that. Then we have guys that look great in practice and suck in a game. Coaches find this stuff out by playing guys.
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These are some of the most ridiculous and unfounded post on the board and they keep being repeated over and over about different players.
You have no if and when he would of played.

I guarantee he would have and know he wasn’t no super star when he first started.
He developed over time.
 
#50
#50
DarkMode said:
Milton wasn't ready this year. EVERY realistic fan saw that.
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If you polled Vol fans after the Orange Bowl, i think you would have actually found a majority of realistic fans saw him as ready to take the reins. Still don’t know what happened to THAT Joe Milton
 
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