Those 4th down play calls

#26
#26
The 4th down play calling was playing to win...The letting the time run off the clock, instead of calling a t/o and at least trying to get a FG before halftime (which could have been the difference in regulation btw) was playing not to lose... Butch was not a perfect decision maker in this game, let's not pretend he was.
 
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#28
#28
ITSGR82BATNVOL said:
The 4th down play calling was playing to win...The letting the time run off the clock, instead of calling a t/o and at least trying to get a FG before halftime (which could have been the difference in regulation btw) was playing not to lose... Butch was not a perfect decision maker in this game, let's not pretend he was.
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We were trailing 17-3 at the end of the first half and our offense was not exactly clicking. They played much better in the second half, outscoring Georgia 28-7 prior to their last-second tying touchdown. Confidence in play calling can be situationally dependent, contingent on past performance.
 
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#29
#29
DeusExMachina said:
Gotta say the best one was the toss to Neal. I seriously thought he was gonna house that one, by the time the LB and I think it was a S saw him, it was already too late.
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On the Butch Jones Show, Coach Bajakian said that Rajion practically begged them to run that play and promised them that he would pick up the first down.
 
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#31
#31
JCP201 said:
WE did have several people hurt that were back (Pig, Vereen)...
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Pig Howard is the cog that makes this entire offense go. I knew it to be a fact before, but I really didn't understand how true it was until this game. Not having him takes a huge chunk out of the playbook.
 
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#32
#32
Volosaurus rex said:
We were trailing 17-3 at the end of the first half and our offense was not exactly clicking. They played much better in the second half, outscoring Georgia 28-7 prior to their last-second tying touchdown. Confidence in play calling can be situationally dependent, contingent on past performance.
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No-one would disagree with this. That being said, if you took a poll of everyone at the time, the large majority would say not using our t/o was a big mistake. It was clearly playing "not to lose" instead of "playing to win". When you're hoping to upset someone, clearly more talented and deeper, you have to take chances. You will never beat a superior team, playing conservative (the difference in talent simply won't allow it to happen) and anyone who has ever played organized sports knows it.
 
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#33
#33
ITSGR82BATNVOL said:
No-one would disagree with this. That being said, if you took a poll of everyone at the time, the large majority would say not calling t/o was a big mistake. It was clearly playing "not to lose" instead of playing to win.
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How do you play "not to lose" when you're down by two touchdowns?
 
#34
#34
NashVOL93 said:
Pig Howard is the cog that makes this entire offense go. I knew it to be a fact before, but I really didn't understand how true it was until this game. Not having him takes a huge chunk out of the playbook.
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If you knew it to be a fact then wouldn't you say you DID understand how true it was?? :p
 
#35
#35
vollygirl said:
How do you play "not to lose" when you're down by two touchdowns?
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I'm shocked you "vollygirl" of all people would ask such a question. You have been a huge fan for years, you have seen first hand how Fulmer played not to lose year after year against Spurrier and Florida. Every UT fan in the stadium, at home, wherever knew what the next play was going to be time after time. We had better teams than Florida a number of the years they beat us. They played to win, we played not to lose, and guess what, the team that plays to win, wins the majority of the time.

BTW - TY for posting that pic of North in the endzone. Great d/t background :)
 
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#36
#36
KingtUT said:
We're fantastically designed and almost perfectly executed. I admit I didn't agree with going for it on the original 4th and 1 but after breaking down the game this morning, I realize the coaches must have known exactly what defense UGA was going to be playing. The first 4th down play goes for 50 yds, the second 4th down only goes for one yard but it was one missed block away from going the distance (James missed his block and it about cost us the first down, go back and watch it and you will see that after his man......there was nothing but open field ahead) , the third 4th down is a play action pass that's wide open and goes for 20 yards. Simply amazing preparation by the coaches.

Other things you might not have noticed:

Consistant attempts to strip the ball while making tackles.

Our cornerbacks are playing really good man to man coverage.

No blown assignments on defense.

Cory Vereen plays with the technique ("makes himself small") that the coaches teach.

Our special teams are outstanding right now.

If you can't see the improvement in this teams performance and attitude from the past few years, you need to get your eyes checked. This coaching staff is like the Jeffersons, it won't be long before we're movin on up! Go Vols
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Love it, but I do think someone missed an assignment on Murray's run. We can't let that happen again.
 
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#37
#37
ITSGR82BATNVOL said:
I'm shocked you "vollygirl" of all people would ask such a question. You have been a huge fan for years, you have seen first hand how Fulmer played not to lose year after year against Spurrier and Florida. Every UT fan in the stadium, at home, wherever knew what the next play was going to be time after time. We had better teams than Florida a number of the years they beat us. They played to win, we played not to lose, and guess what, the team that plays to win, wins the majority of the time.

BTW - TY for posting that pic of North in the endzone. Great d/t background :)
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I agree with everything you just said. I'm just saying I don't think he approaches playing from that perspective. Just my feeling on it.
 
#38
#38
vollygirl said:
I agree with everything you just said. I'm just saying I don't think he approaches playing from that perspective. Just my feeling on it.
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All I'm saying is when you're playing a superior team, you have to take chances to win. Butch took chances with the 4th down plays, he didn't at the end of the half when he let almost two minutes run off the clock. If he uses the timeouts, and we get a FG the game ends in regulation and we win. You can not ignore that fact.
 
#39
#39
ITSGR82BATNVOL said:
All I'm saying is when you're playing a superior team, you have to take chances to win. Butch took chances with the 4th down plays, he didn't at the end of the half when he let almost two minutes run off the clock. If he uses the timeouts, and we get a FG the game ends in regulation and we win. You can not ignore that fact.
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It's not a fact that the 2nd half would've played out exactly the same if we'd scored three at the end of the first. But I see what you're saying.
 
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#42
#42
ITSGR82BATNVOL said:
The 4th down play calling was playing to win...The letting the time run off the clock, instead of calling a t/o and at least trying to get a FG before halftime (which could have been the difference in regulation btw) was playing not to lose... Butch was not a perfect decision maker in this game, let's not pretend he was.
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Tell me a coach that is??????
 
#43
#43
ITSGR82BATNVOL said:
All I'm saying is when you're playing a superior team, you have to take chances to win. Butch took chances with the 4th down plays, he didn't at the end of the half when he let almost two minutes run off the clock. If he uses the timeouts, and we get a FG the game ends in regulation and we win. You can not ignore that fact.
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lulz
 
#44
#44
KBVol said:
Think about it, if you're the coach and you see your team unable time and time again to execute plays in practice, why would you call those plays in the game? At least that's my guess.
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Butch said it is his policy to not run plays in games until they can be executed consistently in practice. We have had to get a lot of young receivers and a new qb up to speed so I imagine he was probably already running a few more than he would be comfortable with based on execution just so that he would have more than three or four plays to call in a game.

The thing about the 4th down calls is that if people see you trying to win they will put up with a lot more than if they think you aren't pulling out all of the stops. In this case it nearly worked for us. But even with the loss it built a lot of goodwill to see us be in a game we had no business being in based just on talent.

I will admit I was frustrated with Butch in the first half after the penalty he got, and with him letting the clock run out instead of trying to get in field goal range. But he decided to put his Mad Hatter hat on in the second half and all was forgiven.
 
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#45
#45
That little pitch to Rajion was brilliant. I remember once on sports science they were profiling Les Miles and Chip Kelly regarding how they would go for it on 4th down a lot. They were explaining that it's basic math and if it's 4 and 5 or less you have something like an 75-80% chance of converting.
 
#46
#46
KBVol said:
I don't think the coaches had the level of trust in their players, Worley especially, to execute in the Oregon game to make some of the calls they made vs Georgia. Thought the play calling vs Florida was pretty good the 2nd half.... it's a process that needs time.
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So your saying the coaches had more confidence in Worley after benching him the first half of the Florida game?
 
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