Thoughts on new pro league

#26
#26
Give me some spring football baby. College guys who didnt make it and do not try and play in the fall with the NFL. I am for it. I cant get enough football.
 
#27
#27
They might as well roll down the window and throw $100 bills out the window.
 
#28
#28
It could work if it was a spring or summer league. In the fall there is already a lot of football(notice i didn't say to much) in High School, College, and the Pro's. With games on all weekend and on friday nights the local high school games, it would never work. however if it where in the spring or summer competing with Arena football it could very well succeed.
 
#29
#29
Anybody remember a little league called the USFL? They came along when the NFL was supposedly vulnerable and I think they lasted 2 seasons.
 
#30
#30
Play in the spring or dont play at all

ypu cant compete with the NFL but you can mirror them in the spring

only way it might work
 
#31
#31
Even if there is a spring league, I don't see something like that getting more popularity than MLS. And guess what? It already exists! AFL, guys. They've hit the ceiling for what a second pro football league can do in this country.
 
#32
#32
Anybody remember a little league called the USFL? They came along when the NFL was supposedly vulnerable and I think they lasted 2 seasons.

They tried to compete with the NFL. Even though it was in the spring, they signed top-tier talent (Reggie White, Doug Flutie, Jim Kelly, Herschel Walker, et al.) and therefore tried to take on the NFL directly. You can't do that and have a chance at survival.

A properly conceived, financed, and marketed spring football league could work; I think Cuban is right when he says that there is more demand for football than the market supplies right now. But step one in that process has got to be to recognize that you are simply not going to compete with the NFL. Figure out what additional market exists -- in the spring, in second-tier cities, whatever -- and go after that. But don't even think about trying to cut into the NFL's market at all, because it's not going to work.
 
#33
#33
(Incidentally, Cuban's group is crazy if they try to play on Friday nights in the fall. Their target market is the Serious Football Junkie, the guy who can't get enough football. But he's already watching football all day long on both Saturdays and Sundays for the whole fall; you think his wife is going to let him watch games on Friday nights too?)
 
#34
#34
They tried to compete with the NFL. Even though it was in the spring, they signed top-tier talent (Reggie White, Doug Flutie, Jim Kelly, Herschel Walker, et al.) and therefore tried to take on the NFL directly. You can't do that and have a chance at survival.

You are exactly right about the USFL. The question though is that if the USFL couldn't compete while playing in the Springtime with NFL level talent, what makes you believe that a bunch of would be NFL free agents are going to be compelling?
 
#36
#36
You are exactly right about the USFL. The question though is that if the USFL couldn't compete while playing in the Springtime with NFL level talent, what makes you believe that a bunch of would be NFL free agents are going to be compelling?

Largely because the interest in football is a lot higher than it was 20 years ago. In an era when they're thinking about moving the draft so it's a prime-time, network program, I've got to think that there has to be a way to generate interest in a spring league of some kind. People rightfully ridicule it now, but I remember a bunch of football fans who were intrigued by the XFL a few years ago. They watched the one game, saw it was way too gimmicky to take seriously, and that was that. But there was enough interest in spring football that millions of people watched that first game.

Cuban's got the right idea by trying to keep down salaries. As I recall, the USFL sank under the weight of its big-name contracts -- they needed big TV money to pay those debts, leading them to A) sue the NFL for antitrust, and B) talk about moving to the fall in the hopes of forcing a merger with the NFL. In order to succeed, a new league would have to accept its second-class status and be run patiently and frugally to give it time to build a small foundation of fans. Donald Trump wasn't willing to do that, Vince McMahon wasn't willing to do that, and honestly I don't know if Mark Cuban would be willing to do that either.
 
#37
#37
Largely because the interest in football is a lot higher than it was 20 years ago. In an era when they're thinking about moving the draft so it's a prime-time, network program, I've got to think that there has to be a way to generate interest in a spring league of some kind. People rightfully ridicule it now, but I remember a bunch of football fans who were intrigued by the XFL a few years ago. They watched the one game, saw it was way too gimmicky to take seriously, and that was that. But there was enough interest in spring football that millions of people watched that first game.

Cuban's got the right idea by trying to keep down salaries. As I recall, the USFL sank under the weight of its big-name contracts -- they needed big TV money to pay those debts, leading them to A) sue the NFL for antitrust, and B) talk about moving to the fall in the hopes of forcing a merger with the NFL. In order to succeed, a new league would have to accept its second-class status and be run patiently and frugally to give it time to build a small foundation of fans. Donald Trump wasn't willing to do that, Vince McMahon wasn't willing to do that, and honestly I don't know if Mark Cuban would be willing to do that either.
it's not just interest in football, it's interest in the NFL. i just dnn't see another league coming in and rivaling the NFL in populartiy, in any way shape or form. people already have attachments to their NFL teams/cities. and for my dollar, i'm going to spend it on something i'm already attached to. I'm not going to "try" the new thing, when the one i already have works.

and this is where this new league will struggle. it will have to compete for the NFL customer's dollar. and i don't see too many Steeler, Dophin, 49er etc...fans deciding to use that dollar for an unproven, unkown commodity.
 
#38
#38
it's not just interest in football, it's interest in the NFL. i just dnn't see another league coming in and rivaling the NFL in populartiy, in any way shape or form. people already have attachments to their NFL teams/cities. and for my dollar, i'm going to spend it on something i'm already attached to. I'm not going to "try" the new thing, when the one i already have works.

and this is where this new league will struggle. it will have to compete for the NFL customer's dollar. and i don't see too many Steeler, Dophin, 49er etc...fans deciding to use that dollar for an unproven, unknown commodity.

Agreed, which is why any new football league would have to be completely realistic about their prospects -- which is that they will never be anything other than a second-rate league. There's NO market for a new pro football league to compete with the NFL, and anybody who tried to start one would be wasting their money. However, I think the potential is there for someone to make a few dollars by giving the millions of Serious American Football Junkies a chance to watch at least some football in the spring. There are a lot of people out there thumbing mournfully through Sportscenter that time of year.

Having said that, it's hard to see Mark Cuban being very interested in any venture that would be unashamedly second-rate, so he'll probably try to take on the NFL directly. And like Donald Trump and Vince McMahon before him, he'll fail.
 
#39
#39
Agreed, which is why any new football league would have to be completely realistic about their prospects -- which is that they will never be anything other than a second-rate league. There's NO market for a new pro football league to compete with the NFL, and anybody who tried to start one would be wasting their money. However, I think the potential is there for someone to make a few dollars by giving the millions of Serious American Football Junkies a chance to watch at least some football in the spring. There are a lot of people out there thumbing mournfully through Sportscenter that time of year.

Having said that, it's hard to see Mark Cuban being very interested in any venture that would be unashamedly second-rate, so he'll probably try to take on the NFL directly. And like Donald Trump and Vince McMahon before him, he'll fail.
check out the AFL then....
 
#40
#40
check out the AFL then....

Bingo. If increasing numbers of Americans are willing to watch arena football in spring, there's obviously at least some interest in watching marginal players in unfamiliar uniforms. You'd have to think that the potential ceiling would be a little higher if it were real football instead of a gimmicky, scaled-down version of it.
 
#41
#41
Bingo. If increasing numbers of Americans are willing to watch arena football in spring, there's obviously at least some interest in watching marginal players in unfamiliar uniforms. You'd have to think that the potential ceiling would be a little higher if it were real football instead of a gimmicky, scaled-down version of it.
so you're now going to ask the consumer to divvy up their money between 3 different football leagues?

i just don't see it. the AFL works cause it is different, but it's still football, and it's on in the summer.

another pro league with NFL style/caliber players/rules etc...i just don't think will work.
 
#42
#42
One thing I always wondered is why new sports leagues always come up with the LAMEST names for their teams. It's always some crap like the DC Lazers or the Seattle Slash. WTF. Who's going to gravitate towards crap like that. They'll spend millions of dollars just to set up new franchises, work out the schedules, pay everyone, get all the legal stuff done, then leave the naming of the teams to a guy with an iq of 14. I'm no marketing major, but dayum.
 
#43
#43
the names will have little to do with the failure of any such league.
 
#44
#44
the names will have little to do with the failure of any such league.

The names have to do with marketing. Marketing can have an affect. But more than anything, I just brought it up cause its a peeve of mine. :)

I see where these owners are coming from in thinking the demand outweighs the supply. But football is just different than other products. I think fans like the obsession and waiting of the offseason. It builds anticipation. More football, when theres already college,nfl, and arena, even if successful, would just water things down.

I CAN see, however, this league being successful with nfl not as a competitor, but as a partner. I've always felt a minor league could be userful for the nfl. So maybe guys who are no longer eligble for college ball but not quite ready for an nfl spot could get developed in such a league. When theyre ready or someone gets hurt, they can be called up, similar to baseball
 
#45
#45
The names have to do with marketing. Marketing can have an affect. But more than anything, I just brought it up cause its a peeve of mine. :)

I see where these owners are coming from in thinking the demand outweighs the supply. But football is just different than other products. I think fans like the obsession and waiting of the offseason. It builds anticipation. More football, when theres already college,nfl, and arena, even if successful, would just water things down.

I CAN see, however, this league being successful with nfl not as a competitor, but as a partner. I've always felt a minor league could be userful for the nfl. So maybe guys who are no longer eligble for college ball but not quite ready for an nfl spot could get developed in such a league. When theyre ready or someone gets hurt, they can be called up, similar to baseball
they have one, it's called the SEC.:thumbsup:
 
#47
#47
in all seriousness though, college football has provided just that for the NFL, and it costs the NFL nothing. the NFL has no vested interest in trying to partner up with anyone for any reason, they're the daddy. why would they want to take on a partner, add the additional cost of setting up a league etc...when the NCAA does it for them, for nothing?
 
#48
#48
in all seriousness though, college football has provided just that for the NFL, and it costs the NFL nothing. the NFL has no vested interest in trying to partner up with anyone for any reason, they're the daddy. why would they want to take on a partner, add the additional cost of setting up a league etc...when the NCAA does it for them, for nothing?
\

Who says the nfl has to set up the league? Maybe an NFL team would have to kick down some to the UFL if it wanted to call up a player. I'm not a business guy at all. But the benefit to the NFL is they'll have another vehicle to market their product. Also, its easier to scout this league instead of sending spies to arena and canadian leagues and then have to figure out if he what he does there can translate. Not sure. I havent given it alot of thought.

One possible way UFL COULD compete is if they went after guys who would be 2nd or 3rd rd draft picks in the nfl. They may be able to offer these types of guys more money than the existing league can or will. So if you have a league filled with guys who are nfl quality but not 1st rd, youre going to see some good football.

All just hypotheticals I guess. I really dont see this thing coming off at all. So many others have tried and failed. AFL has it's niche, so its hung around.
 
#49
#49
\

Who says the nfl has to set up the league? Maybe an NFL team would have to kick down some to the UFL if it wanted to call up a player. I'm not a business guy at all. But the benefit to the NFL is they'll have another vehicle to market their product. Also, its easier to scout this league instead of sending spies to arena and canadian leagues and then have to figure out if he what he does there can translate. Not sure. I havent given it alot of thought.

One possible way UFL COULD compete is if they went after guys who would be 2nd or 3rd rd draft picks in the nfl. They may be able to offer these types of guys more money than the existing league can or will. So if you have a league filled with guys who are nfl quality but not 1st rd, youre going to see some good football.

All just hypotheticals I guess. I really dont see this thing coming off at all. So many others have tried and failed. AFL has it's niche, so its hung around.
well that's obvious.:)

bottom line is if the Teams or the NFL as a whole are going to partner with this new league, it will incur some cost, even if only at the administrative level.

the current system, each team hires scouts, pays the travel expense, and someone else, at their cost alone, runs the teams, facilities, develops the players, incurs all the medical costs etc, etc, etc....

the NFL has got it good......and they'd be nuts to change it now.
 

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