Thoughts on Roy Williams

#1
Lexvol

Lexvol

I'm Your Huckleberry
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
22,284
Likes
241
#1
I remember watching his Kansas teams in the tourney, and after watching the game yesterday I began to wonder about his ability. Being a novice basketball fan I will ask this question: can Roy Williams win a big game unless he has an enormous talent advantage?
 
#3
#3
Doesn't recruit national championship winners or conference championship winners? He's won plenty of conference titles so I would still classify that as winners.
 
#4
#4
He won plenty of conference titles in the Big 8 and a couple in a still weak Big XII. His latest conference title at UNC comes against the weakest competition the ACC has put forth in over 20 years.
 
#5
#5
He did not have an enormous talent advantage over Illinois in his title game, and the Georgetown team that beat him yesterday is very, very good. Had UNC not held a double digit lead late in the game--remember that they were a lot of people's picks to win the whole thing before the tourney started.

I really think the game was a result of playing a team full of freshmen and sophomore's who fell apart on their biggest stage and couldn't figure out how to put it together.

Williams had some well documented flame-out's at Kansas to be sure, but it is hard to label a guy that has won a national title, reached a handfull of final fours, and sports a couple of fists full of conference tourney championship rings from the Big XII and the ACC as a coach who can't win the big one. It is also pretty tough to say that the players he had on those teams weren't winners.
 
#6
#6
cotton said:
He did not have an enormous talent advantage over Illinois in his title game, and the Georgetown team that beat him yesterday is very, very good. Had UNC not held a double digit lead late in the game--remember that they were a lot of people's picks to win the whole thing before the tourney started.

I really think the game was a result of playing a team full of freshmen and sophomore's who fell apart on their biggest stage and couldn't figure out how to put it together.

Williams had some well documented flame-out's at Kansas to be sure, but it is hard to label a guy that has won a national title, reached a handfull of final fours, and sports a couple of fists full of conference tourney championship rings from the Big XII and the ACC as a coach who can't win the big one. It is also pretty tough to say that the players he had on those teams weren't winners.
Click to expand...
I would easily say that the following players proved they could not play underneath the glare of the national spotlight:
Nick Collison
Wayne Simeon
Scott Pollard
Raef Lafrentz
Drew Gooden
Paul Pierce
Ryan Robertson
Jeff Bosche
"Psycho T"
 
#7
#7
I really don't care either way but to say he doesn't recruit winners is not true. Wether weak or strong those teams and players you mentioned still won conference titles in major conferences making them winners. Wether you win the national title or not it still takes a lot of heart to get to all the final fours he has been to.

Would you say Dean Smith or Jim Boeheim didn't recruit winners? Bo Schembechler, I think, never won a national title would you say he didn't recruit winners?

I would have a hard time saying Paul Pierce, Jaque Vauhn, Kirk Hinrich, Nick Collison, Marvin Williams, Branden Wright, Tyler Hansbrough or Ty Lawson just to name a few are not winners.
 
#8
#8
For the record, since '88-89 when he took over at Kansas, Williams has reached 10 Sweet Sixteens, with 4 of those trips resulting in a finish in the Final Four. He won the Big XII regular season 4 times, the Big XII tourny three times, and an ACC tourney championship (technically, the ACC does not crown a "regular season champion.")
 
#9
#9
Dean Smith won multiple NCs with his recruits. Boeheim won one with his recruits. Roy has not, ever!

Also, I wouldn't exactly label the Big 8 as a Major Conference. I also would not exactly classify the Big XII as a major basketball power conference in '97, '98, and '99.
 
#10
#10
cotton said:
He did not have an enormous talent advantage over Illinois in his title game, and the Georgetown team that beat him yesterday is very, very good. Had UNC not held a double digit lead late in the game--remember that they were a lot of people's picks to win the whole thing before the tourney started.

I really think the game was a result of playing a team full of freshmen and sophomore's who fell apart on their biggest stage and couldn't figure out how to put it together.

Williams had some well documented flame-out's at Kansas to be sure, but it is hard to label a guy that has won a national title, reached a handfull of final fours, and sports a couple of fists full of conference tourney championship rings from the Big XII and the ACC as a coach who can't win the big one. It is also pretty tough to say that the players he had on those teams weren't winners.
Click to expand...

The Kansas flameouts are really what prompted the post.
 
#11
#11
cotton said:
For the record, since '88-89 when he took over at Kansas, Williams has reached 10 Sweet Sixteens, with 4 of those trips resulting in a finish in the Final Four. He won the Big XII regular season 4 times, the Big XII tourny three times, and an ACC tourney championship (technically, the ACC does not crown a "regular season champion.")
Click to expand...
I am very familiar with Roy Williams' records, statistics, and accomplishments. I am not impressed.

He has taken elite college programs and, with his guys, kept them at their status quo.
 
#12
#12
therealUT said:
I would easily say that the following players proved they could not play underneath the glare of the national spotlight:
Nick Collison
Wayne Simeon
Scott Pollard
Raef Lafrentz
Drew Gooden
Paul Pierce
Ryan Robertson
Jeff Bosche
"Psycho T"
Click to expand...

You're right Pierce has looked very uneasy in his multiple all star games, as did Pollard when he was in the playoffs with the Kings
 
#13
#13
Again I will ask- Would you say Schembechler didn't recruit winners because he never won a national title?
 
#15
#15
JZVOL said:
Again I will ask- Would you say Schembechler didn't recruit winners because he never won a national title?
Click to expand...
I could not say with certainty. I have done very little research into the historic state of Michigan football and the players the program has produced. Shembechler might have recruited winners, yet he might not have been a winner. I think Roy is a winner, however, he does not know how to find that intangible in the kids he recruits.
 
#16
#16
therealUT said:
I did not realize that championships were won during all-star games...
Click to expand...

In the post I quoted you didn't say championships you said play under the national spotlight- Paul Pierce at least has proven he can
 
#17
#17
therealUT said:
I could not say with certainty. I have done very little research into the historic state of Michigan football and the players the program has produced. Shembechler might have recruited winners, yet he might not have been a winner. I think Roy is a winner, however, he does not know how to find that intangible in the kids he recruits.
Click to expand...

That could be true but that is almost like saying Peyton didn't have the itangibles in college but somehow found it in the pros. I would just have a tough time saying he can't find kids with those intagibles when just about every school in the country recruits the kids he signs.
 
#18
#18
Playing the perennial playoff choking Celtics is hardly proving that you can play under the glare of the national spotlight.
 
#19
#19
Lexvol said:
The Kansas flameouts are really what prompted the post.
Click to expand...

I figured that, and he earned a label there, fair or not, for building the best team in the country that underachieved in the playoffs. He reminds me some of Phil Mickelson in that every time he loses in a tournament, that label is going to resurface.

therealUT said:
He has taken elite college programs and, with his guys, kept them at their status quo.
Click to expand...

Where do you go from "Elite?" If status quo at UNC is where Smith had them, which is regularly being in the mix for the Final Four and a national title, then I agree. The Heels under Williams so far are there.
 
#20
#20
The Celtics are terrible that is for sure but I still think Pierce has been very good, and they still managed to get to the playoffs a couple of times. We could look at how he did in the playoffs but I don't care enough to look it up :)
 
#21
#21
therealUT said:
I am very familiar with Roy Williams' records, statistics, and accomplishments. I am not impressed.

He has taken elite college programs and, with his guys, kept them at their status quo.
Click to expand...
Status quo? Exactly what did May, McCants, and Felton win before Roy showed up ? Also, how long had it been since Carolina won a National Title when Williams arrived?
 
#22
#22
I kinda feel bad for ol Roy. I'd like to buy him a Coke, or at least spot him a dime.
 
#23
#23
therealUT said:
Dean Smith won multiple NCs with his recruits. Boeheim won one with his recruits. Roy has not, ever!

Also, I wouldn't exactly label the Big 8 as a Major Conference. I also would not exactly classify the Big XII as a major basketball power conference in '97, '98, and '99.
Click to expand...

would you say Boeheim recruited "losers" up until his 1 n.c. and is now recruiting them after that title?
 
#24
#24
Also, the idea that Roy Williams only maintained the historical status quo at Kansas is fallacious. How many Final Fours did Ted Ownes reach in his extended tenure at KU? The Williams era is easily the most successful sustained run in the history of Jayhawk Basketball.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top