$, timing, and Holly

#26
#26
I hate to pizz in y’allz corn flakes but Bama is currently making it four losses in a row. Loser Bama!!!! Holly cannot teach our girls the basics because she either doesn’t know basic basketball or she has no teaching abilities.
She has to go period!!!!

Go VOLS!!!!
 
#30
#30
glv98 said:
IMO there's a myth that there's this large contingent of embattled "blue hairs", self-appointed keepers of the Pat flame, that the AD has to tiptoe around lest they feel violated. In my real life, there are WAY more LV fans who definitely feel its past time to make a change. In fact, I find the split about like this board, about 95% for a new coach and 5% Holly Apologists. I realize some of the older, long time fans who might be against a coaching change are also big donors, but those dollars are small potatoes compared to what's happening to the LV brand.

Even the bluest of the hairs would have a hard time arguing that 3/4 of a decade is "not enough time". Holly's 60, she's been doing this for 35 years. A couple of hundred games into her current role. No remotely reasonable person could feel we do not have a sufficient sample of her abilities. It's quite a tribute to Pat, and I suspect only because of her incredible legacy, that HW's been kept around this long.

Most importantly, I so agree with the poster upthread who said we have to remove the LV "funk" we are currently mired in. It isn't fair to the elite student athletes (who miraculously continue to come here) to not get the development and teaching they deserve. Name the last HW coached player who left here a markedly better player than she arrived? Yeah, me neither. No one's having fun, ya'll see Rennia Davis lately? Two more years is way too long to wait to open the windows and let some fresh air in.
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Well said.....
 
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#31
#31
madtownvol said:
Apologies for starting a new thread but, perhaps, some consideration of financial incentives, might be useful. From a recent story on ESPN:

"Warlick received a three-year contract extension and a $25,000 raise last summer that increased her salary to $690,000, which ranks in the middle of the pack among SEC coaches. If Tennessee fired Warlick without cause any time before March 31, 2020, the school would owe her one-third of the money she would have earned up until the contract's April 30, 2022, expiration date."

LVs dealing with skid

So, it would cost the UTAD about $600, 000 or so to release Holly at the end of this season (or before).

While that amount would not break the proverbial bank, it is a big chunk of change for a sport that does not generate a lot of revenue on its own.

I have been saying for a while that Holly's contract extension effectively gave her a two year window to prove she could get the LVs back in the top tier. I was not aware of the financial terms but it seems that the two year window is built into the severance package.

For all the folks, yapping about Fulmer's lack of fortitude and so on, this arrangement makes sense. Per last season, when the extension was granted, Holly still had a high winning percentage and she had her second strong recruiting class coming in. Despite slippage in the LVs rankings, firing her would have been a PR disaster for UTAD and a major headache for a new AD who had instability in the football program.

While some seem to think that hiring a new coach, who can lead the program to glory, is simple as saying "Kara Lawson" (who would be a total novice and would have to be willing to exit a promising broadcasting career) or Jeff Waltz (who may have strong ties to his current institution and would likely get a major counter offer to stay put) or other myriad names, coaching searches and hires are complicated, drawn out affairs.

If the LVs don't turn things around in a big way this season, I suspect that behind-the-scenes contacts with prospective replacements would begin and that Holly would opt to "retire" at the end of the 2020 season.

If the wheels totally came off and the LVs did not make the NCAA this season, then such a debacle might force a change sooner that later. Barring that, waiting a year saves UTAD a bunch of $ and lets them get a head start on identifying a new coach.

And the UTAD can say that they gave Holly every possible change to assuage a national media that might profess outrage that a coach with a winning record and long term loyalty to the program has been cast aside. For the record, I think there would be much less of that national media reaction this season than last year but the financial costs still point to next year as the change point.

So, all those in the "fire Holly right now" camp might save a few points on their blood pressure reading and accept that a coaching change before next year (like it or not) is unlikely.

GO LVS: I look forward to ya'll storming all over BAMA!
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Let's start a GoFundme to cover her buyout!
 
#32
#32
Vfl2407 said:
Does Holly love this program enough to save it?
Fulmer won’t fire her.
But she knows what she needs to do.
She doesn’t need the money. It’s time that she steps down gracefully.
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She may not need the money but she wants the money. This is why she will not step down.
 
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#33
#33
Dudleys87 said:
Bingo. He won’t do it because of the connection to Pat. That has always been my stance on it
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Brings up an interesting point...If Phil's connection to Pat is so strong, Do you really think Pat would appreciate Phil's not taking care of her program? I think Pat would say, "Phil "Toughen UP ButterCup"! Make this Mistake right!
 
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#35
#35
mcannon1 said:
An assistant coach could run the team for the rest of the season. A new coach could be announced as soon as the Lady Vols are out of the NCAA tournament, if they make the tournament.
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Exactly let Bridgette finish it out, the girls seem to respond to her more anyway, she is normally the one they are huddle around until Holly finishing consulting with Dean on what to do next
 
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#36
#36
Excellent thoughtful post OP. Good thing you did it BEFORE the Bama game.

Here's a scenario if Phil waits and goes the conservative route until 2020. Assume we get a 6seed in this 19 tourney and lose game one or at best 2. I'm being optimistic at this point.
Then in 20 we lay another egg as fully expected and slip in the back door of the tourney. Then somehow(it's happened before) the blind squirrel finds a nut and we land in a Final 4 after a couple of miracles! The body of work is as bad as we all expect. But the national media (and fanbase?) will be abuzz from the spotlight.

Gonna fire her then? WWPD?
 
#37
#37
PineyBluff Vol said:
Brings up an interesting point...If Phil's connection to Pat is so strong, Do you really think Pat would appreciate Phil's not taking care of her program? I think Pat would say, "Phil "Toughen UP ButterCup"! Make this Mistake right!
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I don’t think she would at all honestly. That said I think in Phil’s mind he’s doing the right thing by keep her here and keep Pats vision alive. All the while he’s destroying everything she built. At some point he’s going to have to make the tough decisions and it needs to be sooner rather than later especially if they’re operating in the red.
 
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#40
#40
madtownvol said:
The budget is actually little tighter. UTAD made 10 million in profit last year but almost all of that has been invested in facility improvements. And LVs posted a 2 million loss last season.
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That's not surprising at all. Look at the paid attendance the last few years compared to the last few years of Summitt's tenure. It has absolutely cratered, and there isn't TV money to make up for it like in men's sports.
 
#41
#41
BigOrangeArsenal said:
I have no doubt in my mind she will be fired at season’s end. She has lost nearly all support. Fulmer tried to make this work. It hasn’t
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I am with you. As much as it will cause pain for those who wanted this to go differently because it was Pat's plan it just does not appear to have a path to end well. I would guess it hurts her more than anyone else that she is not meeting her mentors standards. I have actually felt sorry for her when the cameras have cut over to her when she has called time outs to stop runs. It looks like she has played all her cards and it is still not working.

It is very frustrating that our ladies show flashes of talent matching their rankings, but do not mesh as a team nor do they individually make plays like they were taught as early as middle school. It is like they have never heard about stopping the ball. Post defense just does not exist. Holly does not sit over there by herself. How this still exists baffles me.

I know she has two posts on the way, as well as the number 2 prospect in all the land at a guard spot, but unlike previous years where one could justify letting the high ranking newbies prove themselves, I think it will be hard for the AD to play that hand again.

Don't know who might be on an AD's short list, but suspect our people will be talking through back channels to their people dealing with some hypothetical scenarios. We shall see.
 
#42
#42
Volfan2012 said:
All she has to do is rack up 20 wins and get to the NCAA Tourney then we'll move on like nothing bad happened this season. There is plenty of evidence that paying 690 grand for a women's basketball coach is really ideal for the AD office. To get fired will take a total collapse and missing the tourney JMO.
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WELL HELLO . We saw just that last night.
 
#43
#43
madtownvol said:
Per my post, her buy-out clause is a secondary consideration but I think it set the terms of politely and diplomatically signalling, that HW, you are on a two year probationary period.

I think the primary consideration is that Fulmer wants to say that Holly had every chance to succeed but it is now time to move in a direction (per next year) or asking Holly to gracefully bow out. I call that PR management; you call it a lack of guts. What of consequence changes in either case? The signs are that Holly, again barring a complete meltdown of the program, is not likely to be fired at the end of this year.

Also, people assume that rich folks are willing to write checks at the drop of a hat. I can assure you that is not the case. managing donor relationships is a big concern of University and athletic departments. You don't want tap those "wells" more than you have to. Here I am just conjecturing but I would bet a lot of those who are LV supporters ($$$$) are also likely to be Pat Summitt loyalists and are probably keen to give Holly every possible chance. Maybe Phil knows a coaching change would alienate the existing LV donor base if not handle with a great deal of patience.

And don't shoot, I am just the messenger.
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There is no need to apologize for starting a New faar Holly thread. There are at least 35 other threads, all saying the same thing.

Your thread, though, will soon be on page 2 because 10 new Faar Holly threads will be started today.
 
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#44
#44
Honest question, who do you make a run at if there is a change? McGraw is not leaving ND, Vanderveer is staying put at Stanford, Geno...nope. I like Taylor at Georgia or Mitchell at Kentucky personally. Maybe Walz at Louisville?
 
#45
#45
cobbwebb0710 said:
Honest question, who do you make a run at if there is a change? McGraw is not leaving ND, Vanderveer is staying put at Stanford, Geno...nope. I like Taylor at Georgia or Mitchell at Kentucky personally. Maybe Walz at Louisville?
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As I said in a different thread, it would certainly appear that Kristy Curry has the chops to coach at a high level. She's taken teams of players that are not even recruited by top 50 programs and managed to beat the Tennessee Lady Vols five consecutive times. That's impressive. If she had the players that Holly has, she'd likely be competing for national championships. And as many others have offered, I believe that Wes Moore would be an outstanding choice. He has improved every program he has coached for.
 
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#46
#46
lvocd said:
As I said in a different thread, it would certainly appear that Kristy Curry has the chops to coach at a high level. She's taken teams of players that are not even recruited by top 50 programs and managed to beat the Tennessee Lady Vols five consecutive times. That's impressive. If she had the players that Holly has, she'd likely be competing for national championships. And as many others have offered, I believe that Wes Moore would be an outstanding choice. He has improved every program he has coached for.
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I've generally stayed away from the "who will the next coach be?" threads because I personally don't think Holly is going anywhere no matter how bad the season gets, but...

Kristy Curry has also been to a NC title game back in her Purdue days...and that was very early on in her tenure with Purdue after Peck won a title with them. And as you said, she's been able to coach lesser teams to 5 straight wins over Tennessee. They had some nice ball movement last night.
 
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#47
#47
Dudleys87 said:
I don’t think she would at all honestly. That said I think in Phil’s mind he’s doing the right thing by keep her here and keep Pats vision alive. All the while he’s destroying everything she built. At some point he’s going to have to make the tough decisions and it needs to be sooner rather than later especially if they’re operating in the red.
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?
 
#48
#48
cobbwebb0710 said:
Honest question, who do you make a run at if there is a change? McGraw is not leaving ND, Vanderveer is staying put at Stanford, Geno...nope. I like Taylor at Georgia or Mitchell at Kentucky personally. Maybe Walz at Louisville?
Click to expand...
Gail Goestenkors
 
#50
#50
sport3500 said:
I think if a change is made during the season, Lockwood would be the interim coach otherwise CPF waits until the season has ended and sees if the Lady Vols can make the NCAA Tournament field.
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Yes, I agree that IF there's a mid-season change that elevating Lockwood would be what Fulmer would do. I don't know that Lockwood would improve the performance of the team AT ALL, but that's what I see Fulmer doing if he actually pulls the trigger.
 
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