To pardon or not to pardon? That is the question.

#1
lawgator1

lawgator1

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#1
News report that the appellate court has denied Libby's request to remain free pending appeal. So, he might be going to jail by end of the month. This is big news on the issue because it means that Bush effectively cannot wait until after the '08 election to pardon Libby (he'd be almost half-way through the sentence by then). Thinking is he would have preferred to wait so as not to add to scandal/insider problems for the Republican nominee.

So now Bush has to make a decision. Only 18 percent of the population favors a pardon. But, as a commentator said a week or so ago on McLaughlin Report, when you have an approval rating in the low 20's, its not like you can really hurt yourself by doing this.
 
#2
#2
I think that it would be ridiculous if he does. It would just further go to confirm the feeling I have been getting lately - that the president can do pretty much whatever he wants with little consequence. If he wants to do something illegal, he can do it and then prevent evidence from being collected by claiming executive privilege. If you think that you may be caught doing that, then just talk one of your buddies into doing it and then pardon him/her if he/she gets caught. I know that what Libby is in trouble for has nothing to do with revealing classified information and has everything to do with lying. I also know that there are limits to the president's power. However, I have become really annoyed and frustrated with how much the president and vice-president can get away with....especially considering the increased use of signing statements.
 
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TennTradition said:
I think that it would be ridiculous if he does. It would just further go to confirm the feeling I have been getting lately - that the president can do pretty much whatever he wants with little consequence. If he wants to do something illegal, he can do it and then prevent evidence from being collected by claiming executive privilege. If you think that you may be caught doing that, then just talk one of your buddies into doing it and then pardon him/her if he/she gets caught. I know that what Libby is in trouble for has nothing to do with revealing classified information and has everything to do with lying. I also know that there are limits to the president's power. However, I have become really annoyed and frustrated with how much the president and vice-president can get away with....especially considering the increased use of signing statements.
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Your just now figuring this out about our wonderful justice system??? Its not about what you do its about who you know, and that right there will bring our country down.
 
#8
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g8terh8ter_eric said:
Your just now figuring this out about our wonderful justice system??? Its not about what you do its about who you know, and that right there will bring our country down.
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I just always felt that congress could check the president if he stepped out of line....but it is hard to do that if he destroys the evidence and then claims executive privilege to prevent you from investigating further.
 
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Predictably, the Presidential candidates are chiming in on this. But I doubt you'll hear Hillary squawking too forcefully on the issue of pardons.
 
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GAVol said:
Predictably, the Presidential candidates are chiming in on this. But I doubt you'll hear Hillary squawking too forcefully on the issue of pardons.
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She was actually saying some pretty strong words (about the commuted prison term, at least) in Iowa tonight. While I agree that Clinton (the former) pardoned and commuted with the best of them, it is probably not entirely fair to automatically attach (at least all of those) to Clinton (the latter).

... i wanted to see how many () I could use in 1 post :)
 
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TennTradition said:
it is probably not entirely fair to automatically attach (at least all of those) to Clinton (the latter).
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It's absolutely fair in that this is the role of the President. All Presidents exercise their ability to grant pardons/commutations . . . and predictably the opposing party freaks out. Scooter Libby, meet Mark Rich.

Do you believe for one second that Hillary did not have input on Bill's pardons?
 
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GAVol said:
It's absolutely fair in that this is the role of the President. All Presidents exercise their ability to grant pardons/commutations . . . and predictably the opposing party freaks out in a show of selective outrage. Scooter Libby, meet Mark Rich.
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In your previous post, you stated that Hillary (Clinton the latter) would not be wanting to speak to much of pardons, implying that this would make her look bad...presumably because of her husband's (Clinton the former's) commuting and pardoning. My statement was that it probably isn't fair to attach (at least all of) her husband's pardons to her - she didn't make those decisions and isn't responsible for them.
 
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TennTradition said:
she didn't make those decisions and isn't responsible for them.
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No, she's not responsible for them . . . but don't pretend that she didn't have input and will have to answer for that if she takes on the Scooter Libby issue too aggressively.
 
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GAVol said:
No, she's not responsible for them . . . but don't pretend that she didn't have input and will have to answer for that if she takes on the Scooter Libby issue too aggressively.
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I really don't know how much input she had. The reason that I said "all of them" is because I'm fairly confident that she would have been involved in the whitewater pardons. I see no reason why Bill would have necessarily consulted her about other pardons. My guess is that they weren't talking all that much near the end of his term anyway (when I'm sure a lot of the pardons were issued).

I don't know...I'm not a huge Hillary fan, but I'm not in a rush to attach the good or bad of the Bill Clinton presidency to her.....
 
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TennTradition said:
I don't know...I'm not a huge Hillary fan, but I'm not in a rush to attach the good or bad of the Bill Clinton presidency to her.....
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I don't think it even matters what she did and didn't have input on. My point is, she can't stand on a stage in Iowa with him as she did tonight and then pick and choose which areas of Bill's administration that she wants to be associated with.
 
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GAVol said:
I don't think it even matters what she did and didn't have input on. My point is, she can't stand on a stage in Iowa with him as she did tonight and then pick and choose which areas of Bill's administration that she wants to be associated with.
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fair enough
 
#24
#24
Bill Clinton should have just claimed that bjs in the oval office were an executive privilege....it would have saved us a whole lot of trouble and an impeachment
 
#25
#25
Not a bad idea at all . :) . . Actually now that I think about it, Bill Clinton and Scooter Libby committed the exact same crime.
 
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