Top 25 means we need Top 25

#1
D

Dougie_D

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#1
First off,

There is no reason why TN can't be a Top 25 team every season, strictly w/ talent.

Why are we not?

Is CCM a Top 25 Coach? Is he a Top 25 Recruiter?

If not, we need to look elsewhere regardless if we go to the tourney or not.
 
#3
#3
Dougie_D said:
First off,

There is no reason why TN can't be a Top 25 team every season, strictly w/ talent.

Why are we not?

Is CCM a Top 25 Coach? Is he a Top 25 Recruiter?

If not, we need to look elsewhere regardless if we go to the tourney or not.
Click to expand...

I agree we need to replace ccm and hire a real coach regardless of how this season turns out.
 
#4
#4
We seem to have exactly the same problem in both the men's and women's game: good talent, bad coaching. Based on talent the ladies started at #3, but they'll be lucky to finish in the top 25. It's hard to watch either team.
 
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#6
#6
knowthevols said:
I agree we need to replace ccm and hire a real coach regardless of how this season turns out.
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Okay, didn't we try to hire a real coach when Pearl left?
Seems no one was interested, so it fell to the tenth or eleventh candidate on the list.

Also, in the past, we had a good coach but we ran him off. Do you remember Jerry Green, who took us to the NCAA several times?
 
#7
#7
Rudy123 said:
Okay, didn't we try to hire a real coach when Pearl left?
Seems no one was interested, so it fell to the tenth or eleventh candidate on the list.

Also, in the past, we had a good coach but we ran him off. Do you remember Jerry Green, who took us to the NCAA several times?
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Not sure if serious.

I'm guessing you are mid to early twenties or younger because you obviously didn't sit through the Jerry Green era.
 
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#8
#8
knowthevols said:
I agree we need to replace ccm and hire a real coach regardless of how this season turns out.
Click to expand...

You do realize Martin finished above expectations his first two years right? Even though Pearl left six scholly players and sanctions hanging over our head. Last year no Maymon. Sounds like a real coach to me.

I think people overestimate the talent Pearl left. He only won 19 and went 8-8 in the SEC his last year and finished unranked after starting top 25 and reaching top ten. We lost by 30 in the first game and scored 45 points. We had way more talent then and won 19. We lose all our talent overachieve with less talent and win 19 the next year 10-6 SEC and 20 the year after and he can't coach at all. That is funny.
 
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#9
#9
Cuonzo & Holly have to both step it up. Neither loss this past weekend is acceptable. No excuse! Neither team seems disciplined at all. They play great at times then just disappear! 2 "easy" games this week vs probably the 2 worst teams in the SEC this year in Auburns men & Mississippi States women. If we lose either, Hart needs to start his search!
 
#10
#10
k-town_king said:
You do realize Martin finished above expectations his first two years right? Even though Pearl left six scholly players and sanctions hanging over our head. Last year no Maymon. Sounds like a real coach to me.

I think people overestimate the talent Pearl left. He only won 19 and went 8-8 in the SEC his last year and finished unranked after starting top 25 and reaching top ten. We lost by 30 in the first game and scored 45 points. We had way more talent then and won 19. We lose all our talent overachieve with less talent and win 19 the next year 10-6 SEC and 20 the year after and he can't coach at all. That is funny.
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It's not really fair to judge Pearl off of that last year. He was lucky he didn't get fired before the season started and he was suspended for part of the season. Agree that Cuonzo did overachieve with the first year's talent, but the last two years he's underachieving and next years recruiting class wasn't even in the top 40 last time I looked.
 
#11
#11
TNRazor said:
It's not really fair to judge Pearl off of that last year. He was lucky he didn't get fired before the season started and he was suspended for part of the season. Agree that Cuonzo did overachieve with the first year's talent, but the last two years he's underachieving and next years recruiting class wasn't even in the top 40 last time I looked.
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Last year he also finished above all projections and didn't have Maymon. We still won 20 games and could have made the tourny. This year we are on pace to make it and thats about what was projected. We weren't a top 25 team before the year. This next class I agree with. I'm not excited as a lot of posters. I think it is very mediocre. But to say he can't coach at all or isn't a SEC coach is wrong to me. Especially when he finished above where he was supposed to both years. Then people compare him to Bruce who did less with more his last year. He also had a couple more years on the bubble with way more talent than Martin has had.
 
#12
#12
k-town_king said:
You do realize Martin finished above expectations his first two years right? Even though Pearl left six scholly players and sanctions hanging over our head. Last year no Maymon. Sounds like a real coach to me.

I think people overestimate the talent Pearl left. He only won 19 and went 8-8 in the SEC his last year and finished unranked after starting top 25 and reaching top ten. We lost by 30 in the first game and scored 45 points. We had way more talent then and won 19. We lose all our talent overachieve with less talent and win 19 the next year 10-6 SEC and 20 the year after and he can't coach at all. That is funny.
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Pearl also coached when the SEC was a lot tougher. Thus the reason he could go 8-8 in the SEC and still make the tournament and why CCM goes 10-6 and doesn't. The strength of the league has dwindled the last couple of years.

Also, if you will remember, there were major distractions going on during CBP's last year at Tennessee. That definitely took a toil on the coaches and players throughout that whole season. Plain and simple CBP>CCM any day of the week.
 
#14
#14
volmania8 said:
Pearl also coached when the SEC was a lot tougher. Thus the reason he could go 8-8 in the SEC and still make the tournament and why CCM goes 10-6 and doesn't. The strength of the league has dwindled the last couple of years.

Also, if you will remember, there were major distractions going on during CBP's last year at Tennessee. That definitely took a toil on the coaches and players throughout that whole season. Plain and simple CBP>CCM any day of the week.
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So Martin get a pass the first year? He still had the specter of sanctions hanging over him. Not to mention Bruce left 6 players. Most who had never contributed. So if Bruce gets a last year pass Martin should get a first. Then last year no Maymon and finished higher than projected and won 20 games.

Pearl recruited better for sure. But people acting like he was some coaching genius and Martin isn't fit to coach HS are crazy. Give Pearl a last year pass but bash Martin for doing better than he should have while dealing with Pearl's mess he left over.

Bruce had a couple more seasons he squeaked in with way more talent than we have now. He had Chism, Hopson , and T Smith and only won 21 games. Squeaked in as a 8 seed and lost first round. He lost in the first or second round 3 times. One of the times he was a 2 seed and won the game against the 15 seed by two on a last second shot then lost the next game to a 7 seed. He had some good years but let's not act like he won 30 games a year and Martin is below .500.
 
#18
#18
just out of curiosity --- what makes you guys think TN is a legit top 25 program year in/ year out?


Not trying to flame, just interested in why you guys think that.
 
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#19
#19
Mphsbball said:
just out of curiosity --- what makes you guys think TN is a legit top 25 program year in/ year out?


Not trying to flame, just interested in why you guys think that.
Click to expand...

I assume because under Pearl it was. So for 6 years we were top 25, and really didn't show too much of a sign of slowing down as long as he was here.

Would you disagree?
 
#20
#20
Mphsbball said:
just out of curiosity --- what makes you guys think TN is a legit top 25 program year in/ year out?


Not trying to flame, just interested in why you guys think that.
Click to expand...

There's no reason not to be.

Fan support (top 5-10 in attendance)
Regional talent base to recruit (midstate, atlanta)
Money
Great facilities (TBA, Pratt Pavilion)
 
#23
#23
k-town_king said:
So Martin get a pass the first year? He still had the specter of sanctions hanging over him. Not to mention Bruce left 6 players. Most who had never contributed. So if Bruce gets a last year pass Martin should get a first. Then last year no Maymon and finished higher than projected and won 20 games.

Pearl recruited better for sure. But people acting like he was some coaching genius and Martin isn't fit to coach HS are crazy. Give Pearl a last year pass but bash Martin for doing better than he should have while dealing with Pearl's mess he left over.

Bruce had a couple more seasons he squeaked in with way more talent than we have now. He had Chism, Hopson , and T Smith and only won 21 games. Squeaked in as a 8 seed and lost first round. He lost in the first or second round 3 times. One of the times he was a 2 seed and won the game against the 15 seed by two on a last second shot then lost the next game to a 7 seed. He had some good years but let's not act like he won 30 games a year and Martin is below .500.
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I agree with you that Martin should have gotten a first year pass and I even thought that last year was a little disappointing but still liked how we finished. In fact, up until this year I have been a CCM supporter. However, I am beginning to see an alarming trend with teams he coaches.

I also agree that Coach Pearl was not a coaching genius. There was more than one time I caught myself shaking my head at how miserably some of his teams executed in the half court offense.

However, when you add in Pearl's ability to recruit with his personality and style of basketball, I believe he is head and shoulders a better all-around coach than CCM.
 
#24
#24
volmania8 said:
Pearl also coached when the SEC was a lot tougher. Thus the reason he could go 8-8 in the SEC and still make the tournament and why CCM goes 10-6 and doesn't. The strength of the league has dwindled the last couple of years.

Also, if you will remember, there were major distractions going on during CBP's last year at Tennessee. That definitely took a toil on the coaches and players throughout that whole season. Plain and simple CBP>CCM any day of the week.
Click to expand...

Pearl doesn't get a free pass for those "distractions" because he brought them on himself.
 
#25
#25
BigZiti09 said:
Or be willing to fire one that's not a top 25 coach as soon as it becomes evident.
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Not sure if you're using Martin as an example or just speaking in general.

The reason I ask is because if you ask some people it was obvious Martin wasn't a top 25 coach after his first year. However you can't fire a coach after one year, that's just not the way to do things and bring a program back IMO.
 
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